I’m going to start this with a quote from a conversation a I had with a friend yesterday. Here are his words:
“My biggest downfall is cliche, commercial Christianity. I hate it with a passion. I hate that it’s advertised strategically. I hate that people try to make it look good and trendy so someone else will follow the trend. I just don’t want any part of that. And i have yet to experience real Christianity outside of that.”
Couldn’t. Agree. More.
The surface level, gospel lacking movement that has been called Christianity by most Americans used to anger me. Now it saddens me. There are millions of spiritually dead, sin enslaved people wading throughout their lives with no real love for God, desire to know Him, or passion for His purposes; yet, because they’ve got their tie on straight and hair up high walking into church on Sunday, they think their on their merry way to heaven. When you ask them about their salvation, they assure you that was something they already took care of back in the day. There’s no urgency in their hearts to know God. There’s no fire in their bones for the things of God. They’re just so….. dead. But, they are of course Christian, because:
1) They prayed a prayer they didn’t even understand when they were 4.
2) They go to church almost semi-regularly.
3) They read the whole bible that one summer at youth camp.
4) They’re a registered republican.
5) They got baptized… twice.
So many people define their Christian life by what they do, but not by what Christ has done.
I’m not thinking of anyone in particular as I write this, but I feel as if I’m looking from about 40,000 foot view. America at large is spiritually dead. God isn’t the passion of these people’s lives….money, recognition, power and lust motivate the sickened hearts of the multitudes around us, even within the Church. They just cloak there selfish motives with the name of Jesus.
Almost every anti-religious, gospel-rejecting person I’ve ever talked to sees past the porcelain smile right into the cast-iron heart of the average American “Christian”. They see the self-righteousness. They see the pride. They see there’s no genuine care or concern. There’s just emptiness, nothingness, and death.
I say these things because I have many people who follow this blog who do not define themselves as Christians. To you, the unbeliever, I want to tell you that most of professing Christians in this country aren’t any better off than you are when it comes to their eternal security in Christ. I also want to assure you that the majority of the Christianity you see around you is a bogus, man-made, man-centered, circus. Don’t base your belief in Jesus simply on the religiosity of other people. Look to the Bible. Read it and take it in, for what it says, and shape your view of Jesus there.
Now that I’m done with all that negativity (bleh), I want to also say this: In the midst of the stampedes of judgmental, self-righteous “church folk”, there are also genuine and passionate lovers of Christ intermingled in the mix. They’re often not noticed, because of their humility. They’re often not rich, because of their sacrifice. You won’t see them picketing the streets with anti-gay signs, because they’re sharing the gospel with their gay friends at work. You won’t find them burning down abortion clinics, because they’re at home taking care of the baby they adopted from a 15 year-0ld teen.
These people, these Christians, aren’t just “saying the right things”. They aren’t just smiling on Sunday. They are out living what they believe… because their hearts have been so radically transformed by Jesus Christ.
“You will know them by their fruit”- Matthew 7:16
Dear Matt:
As a gay man “outside” of the Church, your posting is so bleek. In a nut shell, this is what you just said to all of us:
“Friends! There is no real harbor for your souls to seek help for your spiritual ailments.The world at least has a physical tangible hospital for the ailments of the body but good luck in finding any actual spiritual center on earth (i.e. Church, ministry, etc.) that will have the resources to treat your spiritual ailments. So in lieu of any real CHrsitian leaders to guide you on your walk, in lieu of any spiritual elders to advice you on how to govern your spiritual life, in lieu of any spiritual medication that could be described by a spiritual ‘doctor’ (i.e. priest, pastor, counselor, etc.) go and “heal thyself!” Whereas a physical doctor will use his years of studying medical books to prescribe the accurate medicine for his patients, you Matt tell us all to take the Bible on our own and play roullette in the hopeful luck that we will be able to find in this “Spiritual Medical Book” the right measure and level of ‘medicaion’ for our spiritual illnesses as ignorant as we may be. What a lonely troublsome walk! I don’t have to be a religious person or a straight person to know that this “prescription” that you have suggested to us all is faulty in it’s core.
If it takes years of study for a doctor to learn how to heal the physical complexities of the human body how much more necessary is it for a person to find an experienced “Doctor” that will be able to decipher and examine what medicines can be prescribed from the Bible in order to “treat” a person’s soul. THIS DOES NOT TAKE A CHRISTIAN, NOR A GAY OR STRAIGHT PERSON NOR A THEOLOGIAN TO FIGURE OUT THIS EQUATION! In other words, it ain’t rocket science.
If EVERYONE, as you are promoting, should play “Doctor” then the result is the multiple variations and interpretations, opinions, marketing ploys and pre-packaged church
productions of Christianity that you are so griviously opposed to.
Matt, you just went full circle: “I hate pop-Christianity so everybody just start your own ideas on the Bible which will create more versions of pop-Christianity!”
Ha! The Irony!
Am I the only one that can see this? It’s the “duh!” factor and I’m a gay man. Sheesh!…
1Jn 2:27 But the anointing (Holy Spirit) which you have received from Him abides in you, and you do not need that anyone teach you; but as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true, and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you will abide in Him.
Psa 118:8 It is better to trust in the LORD Than to put confidence in man.
If you have any knowledge of the Bible you would recognise that the ‘Church’ is sliding into apostasy. The list of false movements and prophets have grown so long I can not even begin to list them. The ecumenical movement is in full swing. And the RC church doesn’t stand innocent – sorry Davide. Buddha on altar in St. Peters? Pope kissing the Qur’an?
Catholic Catecism 841 The Church’s relationship with the Muslims. “The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.”[330]
Really?
And then you have large sections of the Charismatic movement in the grips of the Kundalini serpert force. People chasing after experience instead of clinging to the Truth.
When I became a Christian the Holy Spirit clearly directed me not to join any congregation – at first. I was instead to study the Bible under His direction – which I did even though I didn’t fully understand the commandment at the time. I thank God for that now because now I am not blind to the deception sweeping the world.
Check out Rev 3:14-22. I’m sure you’ll agree that Matt has given a pretty accurate description of the end-time church we are seeing. I do now have fellowship with other Christians but I first look at their doctrine – and more importantly, their fruit.
Study your Bible. Trust in God. Or follow fallible men to your destruction. Your choice.
@sarelpetrus, I will say a big AMEN to what you have stated, but I would say that the so-called “Church” has been sliding into Apostasy for the past century, and we are seeing the full fledged “Anti-Christ” system steaming forward toward it’s temporary “rule and reign” with the “New World Order”, the “Harlot system” is in place, Mystery Babylon is rising, and the RC is the leader. One thing the harlot system does not realize, that Satan does not share his throne with anyone, and will turn against the Harlot and dethrone her!
I also do not attend any organized “church”, we the true believers ARE the body of Christ, His Church, and I meet with other “individual” believers, when we are able. We just dwell with one another, talk about the Lord, and are grateful for His faithfulness to us. We encourage one another in our walk, we comfort, we encourage, we pray, and when necessary we correct and we rebuke one another “if” and when needed. That is how the true body of Christ functions.
The scripture you quoted at the beginning “1John 2:27″ is something the Lord started to teach me years ago, and it stands true especially today! It’s very similar to the time where all those “faithful” believers back during the Babylonian captivity, where Jeremiah Daniel, Ezekiel, Obadiah, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego, all existed, but really never met, but yet were placed where they were to serve the Lord in the midst of such apostasy!
It’s an exciting time, yet very sobering, and very sad to see so many so-called believers caught up in such a lie! But, our Lord always has His chosen faithful scattered abroad in the midst of such unfaithfulness.
The Lord bless you and keep you in His perfect will for your life!
Christ told us that He was the way and it would require a radical dying to ourselves to find the amazing life alone in him. Christ also said that the road to destruction is wide and the majority of people will be on it because it is easier to live for self in sin but the few who dare to die to self for the exchange of Christ’s life will find the abundant life that lasts forever. It does not matter what people think about me because this life is a tiny dot compared to eternity.
@ matt, being a Christian is trendy and cool…I suppose there are those Christians that go to church services or Mass just to fulfill their Sunday oblications, but it’s usually those Christians who can’t get out of bed Sunday who mock the Sunday church goers…maybe we should focus more on Christian ‘me’ rather than Christian ‘them’, ay?
@ Davide
Dito! At last, we agree on something! Bet you never thought you would have something in common with a non-church going homosexual man.
Mike, friend, I live with two ‘homosexual’ men and my sister. One of these men is a chaste devout Catholic…the other is not. I just might know ‘homosexual’ men better than you assume…assumptions are funny quirky things, no?
@Davide
You ARE wrong!
Matt IS right!
Afterall, Matt himself, has professed he IS guided by Grace so how can he possibly be in error? (Granted, the Pope of Rome shares the same stance as Matt in regards to being guided by Grace but lets turn a blind eye to that for convinience sake.)
“They’re often not noticed, because of their humility. They’re often not rich, because of their sacrifice. You won’t see them picketing the streets with anti-gay signs, because they’re sharing the gospel with their gay friends at work.” This is so True. Thank you for noticing~
@ Davide
I agree with you, “assumptions” ARE indeed funny and quirky things especially when assumptions lead one to believe that long-term honor and respect between 2 people (who just happen to be of the same sex) are incapable of loving one another.
*check-mate*
I love how Matt addresses the issue at hand but it is misconstrued by others. He didn’t say play doctor yourself. He said instead of forming your view of God on the media presented Christianity base it of the view in the bible. Hypocrites are everywhere including the church. Don’t be a hypocrite with them and not go because of that. True Christians won’t be found professing themselves as Christians for their pride but true Christians live, breathe, eat, walk, and talk the lifestyle of a Christian as portrayed by Christ and His Word. Good job Matt and keep up the walk with God.
Thank you, Matt.
I love you Matt. You gotta know that! I just bite back a little, that’s all.
“The blind leading the blind”
To the person with cancer I say, “Pick up a book on radiology and cure thyself. For you know more than an experienced radiologist.”
To the person with spiritual cancer (i.e. sin) I say, “Pick up a book on God, the Bible, and cure thyself. For you, in your spiritual blindness, can know more than those (priests, pastors, counselors, etc.) who are standing on the outside of your illness and can see it clearly.”
Matt hates the “fake Christianity” that is the DIRECT result of millions of people thinking that they can interpret, understand, discern, and apply a spiritual medical book to their own spiritual illnesses.
It will not surprise me when Matt opens up his own “Church” in the near future presenting yet another ‘style’ of Christianity based on his own personal spritual walk. And it won’t be long till someone in his new church community decides to create yet another ‘style’ of Christianity and breaks off from Matt’s church and the snow ball affect continues…
Geez, straight people, get your acts together!
@ Mike, in otherwords ‘Protestantism’?…like the world need’s another Protestant denomination…33 thousand is enuff
The reality is that we need to emphasis Christ as the head not our affiliation with an denomination or etc. I am coming to the realization that genuine followers of Christ will be led by the Spirit to be the body that God intended us to be. People asked me what is my Christian classification, I simply tell them I am a follower of Christ as prescribed by the scriptures. Paul shared this mindset as he warns the Corinthians identifying as themselves by a group or leader besides Christ in 1 Corinthians Chapter 1. Are we promoting Christ or Catholicism or Protestantism? The real church follow Christ not a religious group or Pope. The division among churches is often for two reasons: one is that some have wander from truth resulting in some have to leave that particular group as noted in 1 John 2:18. The reason that we make emphasis on our particular pet verse versus the person of Christ and the gospel. The reality is that many churches have left Christ forcing people to leave these groups so John tells that divisions are necessary since these groups large or small have left Christ. The tragic history of the dark ages and current church situations show that many Church institutions suffered from this condition. Have we forgotten Christ spoke to several churches in the book of revelation noting some were false and deceived? Lastly Paul tells us the following:
2 Corinthians 11:2-4 ” For I am jealous for you with the jealousy of God himself. I promised you as a pure bride to one husband—Christ. But I fear that somehow your pure and undivided devotion to Christ will be corrupted, just as Eve was deceived by the cunning ways of the serpent. You happily put up with whatever anyone tells you, even if they preach a different Jesus than the one we preach, or a different kind of Spirit than the one you received, or a different kind of gospel than the one you believed.”
I don’t get your dud factor? It was the religious leaders that did not get Jesus and they should been the ones who got it since they were experts in the prophetic writing pertaining to Christ? Are you insisting that that we should relied more on a presumed expert or leader versus finding truth by first seeking Christ by our own study of scripture? Christ and Paul both pointed to scripture as the valadation for their statements. I am not discounting the importance of knowledgable leadership but so often leadership as shown by thousands of years both by Jewish and Christian history have been prone to wander from God’s truth and created their own truth. It is truth as prescribed by a contextual study of scripture that leads to Christ who is our true healer, redeemer, teacher, Shepard , Savior and the only true door to God. Paul preached Christ crucified and risen as the only means of redemption for this ailing and dying world. God does his work thru the members of his true body to bring grace to dying people. How do you determine a gualified leader and on what basis? Is it possible to have a phd in religion and be completely blind to Christ? Why did the religious experts fail to follow Christ?
@ Albert
“Are you insisting that that we should rely more on a presumed expert…versus finding truth [on] our own study of scripture?”
Uh, I’m not ‘insisting’ anything. Do whatever you want! Afterall, that’s what all of you Christians have been doing for hundreds of years anyway. What do I care? I’m just the dumb gay guy who doesn’t go to church. All I’m saying is that with something so profound and elevated as one’s spiritual health; it would appear that the secular world is more unified in offering consistant PHYSICAL healing to the human body more than than the splintering, fragmented, dizzzying, self-guiding approach that the stereotypical Christian applys to his own spiritual illness all alone. Surely the health of the soul is of paramount importance to the body yet the church(s) is not as sophisticated in offering “medical” help for the soul as a medical doctor is to the human body.
Why then did Jesus pick 12 ordinary men to be his apostles rather then the top of the academic and religious graduates of his time? It is about knowing the person of Christ that is the wisdom of God. t is our connection to him that can heal what no therapist could do in a millions years. I just heard a testimony of World War 2 pow who was haunted by nights from PSTD and his encounter with Christ completely healed him from it. I am not advocating ignorance but Paul chose elders picked from ordinary people be to the leaders of the churches. He knew that the Spirit by the scripture would equipped these people to be powerfully used by God to bring healing to others. Man’s way and God’s ways are often conflicting. Note the following from Paul in 1 Corinthians 1:19-23
““I will destroy the wisdom of the wise
and discard the intelligence of the intelligent.”
So where does this leave the philosophers, the scholars, and the world’s brilliant debaters? God has made the wisdom of this world look foolish. Since God in his wisdom saw to it that the world would never know him through human wisdom, he has used our foolish preaching to save those who believe. It is foolish to the Jews, who ask for signs from heaven. And it is foolish to the Greeks, who seek human wisdom. So when we preach that Christ was crucified, the Jews are offended and the Gentiles say it’s all nonsense.”
Who does God typically picked? According to Paul it is often the weak and foolish in 1 Corinthians 1:26-29 “Remember, dear brothers and sisters, that few of you were wise in the world’s eyes or powerful or wealthy when God called you. Instead, God chose things the world considers foolish in order to shame those who think they are wise. And he chose things that are powerless to shame those who are powerful. God chose things despised by the world, things counted as nothing at all, and used them to bring to nothing what the world considers important. As a result, no one can ever boast in the presence of God.”
@Albert, amen brother, AMEN!
mike, I never said same-sex couples were ‘incapable’ of love nor long term relationships I said such relationships were ‘extraordinary’. My ‘homosexual’ friends openly talk about these things comparing ‘gay years’ to ‘dog years’. Ifa gay relationship makes it to it’s second year of commitment and monogamy it is indeed extraordinary.
The Christian church has had the SAME success at remaining in a long-term, faithful, loving, committed relationship among ITSELF to the same degree as the stereotypical gay man has had at remaining in a long-term, committed relationship with his next fling: Constant break-ups (i.e. schisms), Talk about “dog-years”! I wonder what the “dog-years are for the “Church”. Hence the stereotypical gay man lives alone by himself; not trusting any man with his heart. Likewise, the stereotypical Christian remains alone; not trusting any church with his heart but rather teaches himself.
Again, this coming from a dumb non-church going gay guy.
Gah! It’s like Matt is saying to us gay folk, “Hey gay people! Leave the chaotic gay life-style for another chaotic life-style of splintering Christendom. Huh? What do you mean the exchange of chaos for chaos doesn’t sound appealing?”
@ Mike, huh? Schisms and heresies took decades sometimes centuries to develop. Homosexual couples break-ups takes hours, days and sometimes weeks to develop. It is true Protestant Christianity is in ‘chaos’ but it always has been since it’s founding in the 16th century.
@Davide
Sheesh, dude, you are making spell everything out to you! In a human life time a man may have, say 500 break-ups in his romantic life (I put a large number on purpose to make you happy). The church on the other hand has had, what did you say, some “33,000″ break ups (i.e. schisms, heresies, you name it, etc.)! Gah! Stop focusing on a gay man’s relationship success and start focusing on the church’s relationship success amongst itself.You keep using a gay man’s relationship success as some measuring tape to validate whether or not gays have real relationships but you over look the church’s failure in holdling onto it’s own internal relationships with it’s people.
The price of entry to the whole thing is Faith. Not optimism, nor simple mental assent, but Faith in the Jewish Messiah, Jesus. Through Him all things to pertaining to eternal life are accessible to us. So, what IS real Faith? Simply believing God and taking Him at his Word in EVERYTHING. This is not something that a pastor can instill, and nothing a mentor can train you to do. The simplest thing about Belief is also the most difficult: you’re allowed no crutches – because you don’t need them. The Bible states definitively that the Lord Himself adds to the Church. Where is the harbor for your soul? In a person, and in Him only: Jesus. So- what shall we say then? Is the assembling together of Believers in Messiah meaningless? No way! The Bible is clear that there is church leadership, Church authority, communal worship, the breaking of bread together, etc. That’s what we do, and the Spirit moves among us (where two or more are present, so is He, also). There is a large number however, the group to which Matt refers in my opinion, that have skipped Jesus and opted to “do” church. They are good-natured, outwardly “righteous” people with strong beliefs….maybe even strong belief in the detailed words of God, as picked and chosen for themselves to serve as a “Law”. The Bible warns that there will be a falling away, even among “Christians”. He’s going to shake EVERYTHING that can be shaken, and only those with Faith in His Son alone will be able to stand in that day quickly approaching.
To simplify everything, let your faith begin with taking God at His Word on this one statement: “You will seek Me and find Me when you search for Me with all your heart.” No preconceptions or conditions, just read His Word for what it says. He didn’t just commission liturgical geniuses and those well versed in ancient languages. You don’t get to have an “angle”, and you don’t know enough to disprove anything. Childlike faith is your only guide. You’ll probably be led to a church. You’ll grow there. And at some point, you will come to realize that some (not all) people are there as a “self help” program to help them feel better about themselves by obeying rules and singing songs. You will be angry about them because it is a mockery of God’s sacrifice. Then, you will hurt for them, deeply. And, you’ll pray for all you’re worth that Jesus will wake them up by whatever means necessary. That means just may be you.
I totally agree with your statements Matt! Keep up the great work for the Kingdom! Praise God!
Nice work Matt! I couldn’t agree more with you.
Matt this was excellent, and all we can say is “but for the grace of God, there go I”! That is why we can and should be so grateful to the faithfulness of our Lord, for choosing us to know Him and His truth, may he continually strengthen you in the way He desires you to go. We must blow the trumpet for the truth, and pray the Lord open the eyes and the ears of those He desire to know Him. Here a little, there a little, you plant, another one waters, but it is the LORD that brings in the increase and receives ALL the glory!
The Lord bless you Matt!
Sal between you and Cal it’s like I drank a vat of ignorance. Buddha on the altar? Let me guess Muhammad bobble head was on vacation? If you are going to quote the CCC do so in proper context.
I am sure you are aware of the Interfaith Day of Prayer of 1986. I really don’t care what spin the RC church puts on the event. The Pope might as well have got on stage with a bunch of demon possessed Satanists to pray for world peace because if you do not serve God you serve Satan. It was during this event that a statue of Buddha was placed on the altar.
As far as I’m concerned I am perfectly in context when quoting this:
Catholic Catechism 841 The Church’s relationship with the Muslims. “The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.”[330]
The Muslims deny the deity of Jesus, relegating him to a prophet. A prophet secondary to Muhammad, I might add. They do not believe that Jesus died for our sins – in fact, they do not believe that Jesus died at all. They do believe that Jesus will return but as the side-kick of their messiah, the al-Mahdi.
1Jn 2:22-23 Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son. (23) Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father either; he who acknowledges the Son has the Father also.
Anyone who believes that Christians and Muslims pray to the same Creator God is severely deluded. Islam is ruled by the spirit of antichrist and serves Satan.
Here is the Pope kissing the Qur’an.
http://www.deceptioninthechurch.com/popekiss.html
Would he kiss the Satanic bible? There really is no difference.
Why do I say these things to you? When I know you as, shall we say, one who is feisty with a side-order of a sharp tongue? I don’t like conflict – never have. In general I prefer to keep quiet and preserve the peace. But what is at stake here is more important than my personal comfort. I only wish for you to see the Truth – in the same way as you wish for gay people to see the truth about homosexuality.
I wish for you stop bending the knee before statues and relics – I don’t care what that statue depicts, neither does God.
Exo 20:4-5 “You shall not make for yourself a carved image—any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; (5) you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me,
I wish for you to stop saying empty repetitious prayers (Rosary) – it is a practice belonging to the godless and isn’t going to get you anywhere.
Mat 6:7 And when you pray, do not use vain repetitions as the heathen do. For they think that they will be heard for their many words.
The false doctrines of the RC church are legion. The RC church requires blind trust because it claims the infallibility of the Pope, and therefore by extension the RC church.
Rom 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
That includes the Pope. Only a sinless man is infallible, for only such a man is perfectly obedient to the Father – and there’s only been one: Jesus.
You are welcome to call me a Protestant if you wish but that in no way describes how I see myself. I see myself as a son of God. I am part of the Body of Christ which is not some earthly organisation but spiritual. He called me Himself in His great mercy while I was sitting quietly, alone in my room still gripped in the belief that there was no God. I was surprised. Very. But it was so powerful that in that very moment I renounced my homosexual lifestyle and gave my life to Jesus. He then told me to get a Bible and start reading – and the Holy Spirit has been teaching me since that day. Because I believed the Lie for so long (that God didn’t exist) I am pretty fanatic about never being deceived by the devil again. I therefore test every single thing I hear in the Bible. It is therefore very difficult for me to understand how anyone can follow the doctrines of the RC church when they are so clearly in violation of what the Bible teaches. Don’t go down with the traditions of your fathers.
Read your Bible. Do ONLY what it says. Throw out everything man has tagged on.
2Co 11:3 But I fear, lest somehow, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, so your minds may be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
My the Light of Jesus shine and show you the Truth.
Amen!
Very well said!
@ Sab, are you wanting a full counteraccusation from me? Or a judicious rebuttal to clear up the many apocryphal and unsubstantiated declarations made against me and my faith? Thank you
Matt, I agree with your posting as I mentioned earlier, but as I was rereading the post I noticed the quote that you have used from ‘Greg Laurie’. It sure sounds good, but do you realize who this Greg Laurie is? Have you researched this man at all? I have through the Lord’s directing to search out all persons, especially after being involved with a cult for about 3 years, I learned the hard way on how to grow in discernment.
Greg Laurie, is ecumenical. He serves on the board of the Billy Graham Evangelistic Association according to Wikipedia. and that organization is and it’s leader are the enemies of the Cross of Jesus Christ. Billy Graham has never been a Christian, he is one with the Catholic Church, and has been most influential in getting most Christian Churches to be influenced by his deceptive Gospel, which leads not people to the Jesus Christ of our Bible. He has preached a different Christ, and believes in a different Gospel. He is an enemy of the Cross. Greg Laurie also preaches a different Christ a different Gospel. “Laurie is probably best known for his Harvest Crusades, which are frequently broadcast on the blasphemous Trinity Broadcasting Network” a quote from Rapidnet.com.
You should not be using a quote from a man who knows not Jesus Christ that the Bible speaks of. Are you sure you want others to think that you support such a man?
I truly pray the Lord will guide you into all truth, and to grant you discernment in whom to be support even in the little things. You are young in the Lord as I was once, and that is when we are vulnerable to being deceived. But if you are truly the Lords He shall bring you through into understanding what is acceptable unto Him.
Eph 5:6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.
Eph 5:7 Be not ye therefore partakers with them.
Eph 5:8 For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light:
Eph 5:9 (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth;)
Eph 5:10 Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord.
Eph 5:11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.
Eph 5:12 For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret.
Eph 5:13 But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light.
In His Eternal Love…….
cal4u,
Your statements are extremely misleading. We are personally acquainted with Greg Laurie who has been powerfully used by God to lead many to true repentance and faith in Christ. He is a Calvary Chapel pastor who advocates teaching verse by verse to ensure that believers are bought up in the whole counsel of God. He is not ecumenical plus many Calvary Chapel pastors like him have denounced this plus the seeker friendly message that many churches have embraced. The reality is no one has it completely right so we should be like the bereans who were careful to study the scriptures since any leader can be wrong at times in issues not pertaining the essentials of the gospel. I am personally involved with Pastors who are very close friends with Greg and we have been criticized for speaking out about the false teachings of the Catholic Church so your accusations are not valid. Based on your approach, you probably will write us all off as heretics eventually. I don’t know you personally so I cannot know if your life bears the fruits of the Spirit but your inaccurate slanders against are disconcerting traits of character plus it is best not to rush in judgement against other believers unless it is a glaring heresy that completely represents the gospel and Christ. What is your definition of the true Christ and the gospel? Lastly I ended with this verse from the apostle James (KJV) James 4:11-12 “Speak not evil one of another, brethren. He that speaketh evil of his brother, and judgeth his brother, speaketh evil of the law, and judgeth the law: but if thou judge the law, thou art not a doer of the law, but a judge.
There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who art thou that judgest another?
Do you ever shut-up?
Guess not!
@cal4u
You ARE wrong!
Matt IS right!
Afterall, Matt himself, has professed he IS guided by Grace so how can he possibly be in error? (Granted, the Pope of Rome shares the same stance as Matt in regards to being guided by Grace but lets turn a blind eye to that for convinience sake.)
@sarelpetrus
You ARE wrong!
Matt IS right!
Afterall, Matt himself, has professed he IS guided by Grace so how can he possibly be in error? (Granted, the Pope of Rome shares the same stance as Matt in regards to being “guided by Grace” but lets turn a blind eye to that for convinience sake.)
How dare you then question Matt’s use of Greg Laurie! Grace inspired Matt to use Greg’s words.
I meant to write “unless it is a glaring heresy that misrepresents the gospel and Christ.” I do believe there are many who are false teachers but do we define this but by the totality of the whole gospel prescribed by the scriptures not someone’s selective understanding of scripture?
@Albert, everything mentioned is documented, he does serve or has served, but according to Wikipedia he does serve on the Billy Graham Evangelistic Assoc. Do you deny that his Harvest Crusades have not been broadcast on TBN?
Do you also deny that Calvery Chapel is NOT ecumenical? If you do, you err in presenting truth. I can show you proof of what Smith represents.
So before stating that I’m slandering you need to know the facts, because I will reveal them, and then you can argue with the facts to yourself. John Wimber came out of Calvary Chapel, Chuck Smith supported him, that’s TRUTH!
So expect the documentation, and I will stand on the truth of the matter. Unless he has totally repented of everything, that includes supporting Billy Grahams evil association.
@cal4u
You ARE wrong!
Albert IS right!
Afterall, Albert himself, has professed he IS guided by Grace so how can he possibly be in error? (Granted, the Pope of Rome shares the same stance as Albert in regards to being “guided by Grace” but lets turn a blind eye to that for convinience sake.)
How dare you questions God’s vessel of Grace (i.e. Albert)!!!
@Albert I’ve just been to Greg Laurie’s web site, sure looks like he’s quite chummy with everyone involved with the Billy Graham’s organization, a leader in ecumenicism, he also stated, a quote from his personal blog…”"Yes,I would be thrilled to have Chuck Colson speak anytime he wants for us!” Colson is an enemy of the Cross, he is a top ecumenist. People may say one thing, but when their actions show otherwise, then they are being deceitful, and not to be trusted.
Also how can Greg justify praying a prayer such as this concerning George W. Bush Jr, who is NOT a believer whatsoever! This is a quote from his speech at the Republican National Convention in 2004: ” “And thank you tonight Lord especially for President and Mrs. Bush. Thank you for the fact that our President, George W. Bush looks to you for wisdom each and every day. Thank you for giving him that wisdom and guiding his steps. May You continually guide him into the center of Your will for his life and our country.” George W. Bush Jr is associated with the Masons, and Skull and Bones. This makes not a Christian.
It seems Greg Laurie likes to be surrounded by “famous” men, that’s dangerous, and it’s compromising the truth. For if he was speaking the truth, he would not be accepted within this type of high powered company.
Now I think you need to take back that I’m slandering Greg Laurie, I can find other compromises if you desire me too. Also on Harvest web site a video which shows Chuck Smith talking at a Harvest crusade in 2009 I believe, calling Rick Warren a “friend”. Rick Warren is a false prophet and teacher and knows not the Jesus Christ of the Bible, he is an apostate. Since when are we too be friends with enemies of the Cross, my bible teaches me something different. This is on Greg web site.
Would you like more proof, of the type of Gospel this man is spreading, it’s not a Gospel I follow nor do I want to follow, and I’m not the only one to see this and stand against.
So I will call Greg Laurie a false leader of true Christianity, he is deceived, and leading people to a different Jesus. Jesus said many would come and point to a different Jesus, and we are informed NOT to follow them.
I think I have proved that your false representation is exactly that false, and you have falsely accused me of slandering someone’s name. When I’ve presented quite a bit of proof otherwise. There is more. Shall I continue?
@Albert, here is an excerpt about Greg Laurie’s teaching on the “VOID” “I. A False Gospel
A. A False Void
Under “HOW YOU CAN KNOW GOD”, Laurie says,
“Purpose, meaning, a reason for living – these are all things we desire and search for in life. Despite steps each of us takes to find purpose and meaning in life, we still feel empty, unfulfilled. That is because there is a spiritual emptiness in each of our lives. We each have a hole in our heart, a spiritual vacuum deep within our soul – a “God-shaped blank.” Possessions won’t fill this hole, nor will success. Relationships alone cannot satisfy this emptiness, and morality, in and of itself, falls miserably short of occupying this space. In fact, even religion cannot fill the void in our heart.”
“There is only one way to effectively fill that void. This way will not only help us to have a life that is full and rich on this earth, but – more important – will give us the absolute hope of spending eternity in the presence of God. Before we can truly appreciate this good news though, we need to understand the bad news, which is a serious problem we all have. (New Believer’s Bible, p. A1, Greg Laurie General Editor, copyright 1996, New Living Translation; New Believer’s notes copyright 1996 by Greg Laurie, bold added)”
“This “spiritual vacuum”, “void”, and “God-shaped blank” is a lie. Laurie calls filling this void “good news” (i.e. gospel). This is nowhere taught in all of the word of God. On the contrary, Scripture says, “they are filled with all unrighteousness” (Romans 1:29). “The hearts of the sons of men are full of evil” (Ecclesiastes 9:3), and they have an evil spirit working in them (Ephesians 2:2). False assurance is certainly given, when a void that doesn’t exist is supposedly filled.”
The Void Greg is talking about is really having to deal with sin. He twists the scripture to give people a more humanistic view of their need for salvation. He preaches a work salvation, here is another excerpt;
D. A Works Gospel
“Besides adding to the gospel (Proverbs 30:5-6) and teaching the opposite of the gospel, Laurie deceitfully teaches a gospel of works in his perverted teaching about “free will.” In the context of “Why Would a Good God Send Anyone to Hell?”, Laurie says,”
“The truth is that there are some things only God can do – such as cleanse us of our sin, forgive us, and justify us. At the same time, there are some things only we can do – such as come to him, believe in him, and repent of our sins. While God does indeed love everyone (see John 3:16, p. 895; and Romans 5:8, p. 966), he has given us a wonderful but dangerous gift. That gift is called “free will.” It is the ability to choose between right and wrong, good and evil, God and Satan, and heaven and hell. God will not force his salvation and forgiveness upon our lives. (New Believer’s Bible, Hebrews 2, p. 1073 or p. 287, bold added)”
“It is a gospel of works to teach that man chooses God based upon his own “free will.” It is contrary to the gospel found in Laurie’s own Bible (New Believer’s Bible) on page 973 (or p. 187) which says,”
“So receiving God’s promise is not up to us. We can’t get it by choosing it or working hard for it. God will show mercy to anyone he chooses. (Romans 9:16, NLT, bold added)”
“So you see, God shows mercy to some just because he wants to, and he chooses to make some people refuse to listen. (Romans 9:18, NLT; see also John 6:44)”
“In the NKJV Romans 9:16 says, “So then it is not of him who wills.” Yet, Laurie says it is. This is a works gospel, because Romans 9:11 reveals that salvation is “according to the election of God, not of works,” and the “works” being spoken of includes the work of the will (Romans 9:16; see also John 1:12-13; Ephesians 2:1-10).”
This is all from a web-site that breaks down what Greg Laurie teaches, http://www.cephas-library.com/evangelists/evangelists_greg_laurie.html
This confirms what I have been saying, Greg Laurie is a false teacher, who teaches a different Gospel, and different Christ.
There is much more on what this man teaches, so believe in what you desire, but I will have to ask the question, what God and what Jesus do you believe in? Greg Laurie’s God/Jesus, or the Jesus God’s Word is teaching us.
I believe in what my Bible teaches me who Jesus really is, not on what man’s view of who they see Jesus as.
May the good and gracious Lord that I serve open your eyes to His Truth, as He sees it, and teaches it.
I prayed about my response to you. First of all we need to emphasis the totality of scriptural teaching and understanding versus our pet doctrines or favorite teacher. What about the statement that Matt used from Greg was unscriptural. I would hope that we were students of the scriptures to make discerning decisions about anything that anyone does or teaches. Following a leader is not wise nor do I advocated it. Has everything that Greg advocated or taught been exact of course not but to reduce him to a heretic is misleading. Lastly your take on on free will is diving into a scriptural debate that even Paul did not clarified in detail since the work of Grace is an amazing gift from God that does involved our response to him. I have met people like you who advocated an almost passive approach to God ignoring the mountain of verse that warn us to be spiritually responsive. It is almost cultist in nature due to its avoid of any scripture that teaches otherwise in attempts to imply that any attempt to follow Christ is equated with works. Christ by the Spirit is the initiator and finisher of our Faith but this does not mean that we do nothing or are passive. Do you want to tear everyone to shreds looking to find a fault not involving a non-essential with them or promote that we follow Christ and be those who tested everything by the totality of scripture? The reality is that we all have our blind spots and should be praying for others instead of tearing them constantly. I will end with this two verses. 1 Timothy 6 tells not to be like those who “They have an unhealthy interest in controversies and quarrels about words that result in envy, strife, malicious talk, evil suspicions and constant friction between people of corrupt mind.” and lastly we should be the following from 2 Timothy 2:23-26 “Don’t have anything to do with foolish and stupid arguments, because you know they produce quarrels. And the Lord’s servant must not be quarrelsome but must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful. Opponents must be gently instructed, in the hope that God will grant them repentance leading them to a knowledge of the truth, and that they will come to their senses and escape from the trap of the devil, who has taken them captive to do his will.”
Albert, when you are ready to answer my statements of Greg’s compromise with false teachers and so-called spiritual leaders such as Billy Graham and the BCE association and serving on it’s board and other functions, Dr. James Dobson, Colson, his prayer about George W. Bush Jr. When you give me biblical reasons that support such compromises to such enemies of the Gospel and the Cross, then I will continue on in responding with your last posting to me.
Until then I will not respond. However I will say this, the major false teachings of Greg is serious business. We are taught in the Lord’s word NOT to treat this lightly. The Lord would not place a “servant” who has major doctrinal “blind spots” in a place of leadership, and pastoring in an unbiblical Megachurch. The Lord would only place someone in a place of authority such as that when they know and teach the doctrine of the Lord and His Apostles. And secondly they must be called and have received the gift of teaching. There is a heavy responsibility that is placed upon a teacher, so much so we are warned in James 3:1 My brethren, be not many masters, knowing that we shall receive the greater condemnation.
I know about being deceived by false teaching, and false teachers and prophets, I after a few months of being a born-again Christian got caught up in a cult, which taught “doctrine of demons”, and the Lord graciously undid those false teachings, It took a couple of years to get past the fear, those teachings placed within, but I know now His truth. He also separated me from those “movements” churches which promoted the “slaying in the spirit”, which is totally not of God. The slaying in the spirit is of a different spirit, and it’s not the Holy Spirit.
So I will await your response.
I am not a fan or follower of most Christian leaders due the fact that we can get blindsided by them straying from the truth. I believe that God’s church are people who have been born of the spirit not just religious so I am not a fan of institutions since they can be self-serving. I am looking into what you saying. I do not support the ecumenical movement and I also know the tendency for institutions to have serious comprises. We should be like the bereans searching the whole counsel of God not my preference or selective portions of scripture but it is easy to get so obsessed with the wrongs of others that we become blind to our sins since we tend to become isolationist and dogmatic about particulars that not essential to the message of the gospel of Christ. I take the message of Christ extremely serious. Despite the failures of Greg and others, I ahve seen God used them in the past to proclaim truth about Christ also. It is a sober remainder that any of us can fall apart from the grace of God. We can spend hours finding faults with others or making disciples for Christ. Time is running out of so I am spending my time disciplining others the whole counsel of God so they can have discernment for themselves. I am mentioning caution since I have seen several get so caught with the wrongs of others that it is their main obsession versus the gospel of Christ and their lives are filled with constant negativity. I am not ignoring the importance of not aligning ourselves with falsehood but we must be careful not to be seduce away from our simplicity from Christ. and his ultimate purpose for us being left on earth which is to glorify him in everything we do and say.
@Albert
You ARE wrong!
cal4u IS right!
Afterall, cal4u himself, has professed he IS guided by Grace so how can he possibly be in error? (Granted, the Pope of Rome shares the same stance as cal4u in regards to being “guided by Grace” but lets turn a blind eye to that for convinience sake.)
Never question cal4u for he states that he prays for wisdom in his answers and therefore his posts are inspired by GRACE!!!!
@cal4u
See Albert’s first sentence above:
“I prayed about my responses to you.”
Enough said!
God inspired Albert to say all that is in the above post therefore you MUST yield or you fight against the Triune God Himself via Albert’s prayer-covered responses!
Behold, the logic of Matt’s “Real” Christians (not those “fake” ones)
<3
Thank you Matt for your post, your wisdom, and dedication to the truth! Thank you for helping us to think. Too bad it went over some peoples head.SMH.
Albert, I’m glad that you are willing to look into the info I gathered concerning Greg. It can be a powerful reality check when we find out those we have looked upto are not walking according to the Word of the Lord.
We are to view everything according to the Word of the Lord and use the examples of His Apostles as a guide line on how to discern who is teaching or preaching the truth of the Gospel. The Lord and His Apostles laid the foundation upon which we are told to use to know who walks in His ways, or not. Now were the Lord’s Apostles perfect men? Of course not, but did ANY teach false doctrine? Were any placed in a position of authority that had major error? Of course not. They ALL represent the full counsel of God. The Lord said it Himself, that the Way is Narrow that leads unto life, but the broad path leads to death. Why then be so precise……because it’s important for the raising of His sheep in how to be His disciples, for He desire not that any of His Sheep be deceived.
I suggest that you also do some research in whom was Greg’s mentor, his name was Lonnie Frisbee, he died in 1993 due to aids, he was a homosexual, and came to know the Lord while on LSD, acid. Greg while being “slain in the Spirit” became “born-again”, and it was due to Lonnie Frisbee. Lonnie Frisbee practiced homosexuality after his so-called re-birth in Christ Jesus. A documentary was made concerning Lonnie, apparently due to him dying of aids they have pretty much tried to sweep the affect this man had on the Calvary Chapel, and the Vineyard movement, who Lonnie help founded. And yes Chuck Smith again supported such a man. Also Lonnie still took LSD after being born-again, and gave Bible studies. This is just a small sample of what is documented.
This is SERIOUS stuff, and it can explain why Greg is in such major deception. Here is just one of the web-sites that give the true history of Lonnie Frisbee, and his influence upon Greg Laurie, it truly is a rude awakening, but I have biblical support to question the very salvation of Greg Laurie; http://www.inplainsite.org/html/vineyard_lonnie_frisbee.html
I know this may be difficult to believe, but the proof is there. There is no possible way that the Lord used this man Lonnie Frisbee to bring others to the Lord Jesus Christ of the Bible. His life and the fruit shown is how we are to base our standing on who is of the Lord and who is not.
Look into this, then after you have searched this out, then let us discuss further. I do believe you are sincere, and like you, I care for the proper discipling of the sheep, if we cause others to follow a false leader and teacher, then we also will be held accountable for not standing for the truth. This is TRUE love, to warn others of deception in the church. It’s a terrible and sad reality that this type of deception does exist, but we were warned it would wax worse in our time.
I pray the Lord give you the grace to see the truth, and accept it. The Lord bless you.
Mat_3:10 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
Mat_7:17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
Mat_7:18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
Mat_7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
Mat_12:33 Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by his fruit.
In His Eternal Love……
He wasn’t a homosexual. He was raped serially by a homosexual babysitter as a child over many years after which he was a bisexual. Eventually he was just celibate and spent many years in that condition.
@cal4u
You ARE wrong!
Albert IS right!
Why do you continue to rail against Albert who stated that he prays for his responses to you to be inspired by GRACE? You are fighting God through his servant Albert. Albert MUST be right!
@ Mike, Seriously dude you’re kinda funny. But there’s a huge difference between the guys and the ‘Pope of ‘Rome’–> he is the Vicar of Christ and they ain’t. Crap man they aren’t even Catholic!
@Davide
Do you not understand?
Albert and cal4u both state at some point or another during their posts that they have PERSONALLY been informed by the Holy Spirit Himself via Grace to present to differing opinions to one another (they even said they prayed for specific wisdom to give one another).
Either Albert and cal4u are seriously deluding themselves OR the Holy Spirit finds some kind of humour in inspiring numerous “REAL” Christians (not the “Fake” ones mind you) with different points of view. It can’t be both…er, or maybe it can be both.
Matt, my dear brother, your intentions are sooooo well meaning (which is why I love you) but how can a gay man like myself take you and your posse of “Real” Chistians in this blog serioulsy when yall display such inconsistancy and down right silliness for the whole internet world to view. (I am not mocking you Matt but genuinly speechless at such organised “chaos”)
Regards,
- A dumb gay guy from Phoenix, Arizona
@Mike, are you saying Sola Scriptura makes little sense or fundamentalism? Maybe both? Not bad from a dumb gay guy from Phonix.
@Davide
What I am saying is that both the Pope and Protestanism seem to be two sides of the same coin.
In both cases you have one person or many persons (the number is irrelavent) believeing that they MUST be right cause they prayed for enlightenment.
(BTW, where are you geographically if you don’t mind me asking?)
hi Mike-northern Italy & mid-Atlantic eastern USA is where I lay my head
You are making an assumption that I simply go on a whim. This type of approach to hearing God is extremely dangerous and prone to deception. We must know the totality of scripture to determination on what is God’s will for us. This is the major difference between a faith on a man’s declaration and the proven scriptures based on thousand years of proven prophecies and historical accuracy which serve as a light to tell the difference.
Romans 12:2 Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is —his good, pleasing and perfect will.
2 Peter 2:16 “For we did not follow cleverly devised stories when we told you about the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ in power, but we were eyewitnesses of his majesty. He received honor and glory from God the Father when the voice came to him from the Majestic Glory, saying, “This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased.”[b] 18 We ourselves heard this voice that came from heaven when we were with him on the sacred mountain.
We also have the prophetic message as something completely reliable, and you will do well to pay attention to it, as to a light shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts. Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet’s own interpretation of things. For prophecy never had its origin in the human will, but prophets, though human, spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.
@Albert
Okay Albert, you are right.
Afterall, GRACE informed you to reply so. I yield to you.
Mike,
You will be in my prayers. God’s is real and amazing not just a myth not a just empty religious ritual. Christ has taken so impossibilities in people’s life in a manner that defiles the atheists argument. I have seen this in person in incidents that stunned people who saw it. Walking up to a person and telling them what God has put on my heart and they were just asking God about it is very cool and amazing. It is much more than that such as God providing the perfect answer to a need in a way that cannot be disputed. This has happened to me so many times since I came to Christ in 1987. I have no ill feeling towards you or others who mock the idea of going to Christ without a religious expert who decided what is best for us because of the Grace of God is in my heart which is about his mercy and love to a world that mocks and hates him. The greatest miracle is the transformation of a heart. None of us can do it without a supernatural power that can take the hardest and coldest heart and transformed that person to have a love that can even love their enemies.
We as Christians will have disagreements but I appreciate cal4u’s input despite our heated disagreements, we can still love each other with the love of Christ. It is a love that overshadows any kind of allegiance in this world. The world can only love those that agree with them.
@Albert
Again,I yield.
@Albert, yes I do agree we can still love one another as Jesus loved us. Also Love will see a discussion through, it’s only proper and the righteous thing to do. Love does not run away from something, it faces it, keeping quiet is not love, it’s called ignoring the desire to face truth. Now I realize our flesh can and will get in the way and we can pull the denial card, but that is not love, it is worldly and fleshly, and dishonest. When the scriptures clearly point out that we should provide ALL things honest to one another, actually to all men (mankind).
The Lord bless you, and I’m praying for you.
Brother,
I would agree we need to test all things but running to judgement quickly is not wise nor biblical. Using the internet to research details is not exactly accuracy of facts. I have spoken directly to people who know the situation personally so I know more details about it. I see to many people rushed to make judgements without a careful analysis of facts and this does not glorify God. The story of Lonnie Frisbee is a tragic example of can happen with a person who does not deal with sin in his heart. The leadership of Calvary Chapel has taken a lot of criticism for not condoning his lifestyle which lead to his departure and joining the vineyards. I have seen too many church people rush to shoot the wounded which unfortunately seems to be in your statements. How tragic and this does not reflect the love and grace that Christ shows us all each day. We should be heart broken to see anyone fall or struggle. I am not avoiding anything but it is best to research everything before writing about it. Paul also warned that we need to take heed that we too can fall if we get prideful. I have seen this happen too much tragically in my twenty-four years of being a follower of Christ. I am not always quick to post because I am also involved helping orphans and widows in their distress which is a greater concern to me than answering your questions. Matt’s blog is a blessing and we should a least be respectful and not use these posts to debate speculations about someone’s character. If you want to discuss further then out of courtesy for Matt email me directly at beto700@juno.com.
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It’s true that the ones that scream hypocrite are actually worse than the hypocrites. At least the hypocrites give lip service to good. The lost immoral enemies of God never even try.