Last night while talking with a friend on the phone, I really felt that the Lord was urging me to tell him that he needed to stop focusing so intently on his same sex feelings– his mind and heart was so occupied with his feelings that his view of God and himself was being severely skewed. I told him that his confusion, depression and anger were all stemming from the fact that homosexuality was on the big screen in his heart 24/7, not Jesus. As soon as I said this, I knew without a doubt that the Lord was talking to me too.
For as long as I can remember, my life has been dictated by my attraction toward the same sex.
- In middle and high school, my thoughts and actions were constantly centered in on suppressing my abnormal feelings and making sure people didn’t suspect that I was gay.
- In college, my thoughts and actions were constantly centered in on figuring out how I could go about fulfilling these desires, discretely, without being publicly broadcasted as gay.
- Then from age 19-21, my thoughts and actions were consumed with being gay– I came out and was loud, proud and unashamed.
What I realized in my conversation last night was that when I began to follow the Lord in 2010, homosexuality–neither in the general or personal sense– was really on my mind….for the very first time in my life. Of course I talked about it when the occasion arose and I listened to different sermons on the subject, but on an hour to hour basis I wasn’t zeroed in on this thing– but on Jesus. I experienced so much freedom from the power of sin for the first year and a half after my conversion. Pornography was almost a non issue and lust was so easy to turn from. My growth in the knowledge of the Lord was on the rise—and the peace in my soul really did surpass my understanding. Not only did I know that I was new and I was free—but I felt new and free. Jesus was the object of my focus and I desired to run toward Him… and as I did, the filth of this flesh was falling off of my renewed inner man with every leap and bound.
In January of this year, I didn’t even notice how subtly homosexuality started to replace Jesus on the big screen in my heart. As I started to share about more of my personal struggles and journeys with this issue on my blog, the traffic to my site started to explode. In what seemed like an instant I was doing interviews with Christian magazine websites and radio talk shows, got signed on with a literary agency to do a book, then a Christian speaking agency—all on top of dozens of emails a day from men and women asking for my advice pertaining to their own struggles in this area. Because my articles got so much attention when I wrote on this subject, I felt like everything I wrote had to be centered in on things of this nature. Most of my time began to be taken up with thinking about, talking about, writing about, and praying about homosexuality. One might look at my life and see the amazing opportunities the Lord was giving me (and He was)–but in reality, the True Life in me was draining every day. For the past 8 months I’ve wrestled with sexual sin (porn) vigorously—and have fallen into it almost weekly. I’ve been so tired, in every sense of the word. I’ve been depressed, lethargic and unmotivated. I haven’t been able to see any real purpose in my life.
I have forgotten my real purpose…my real identity.
Once again, I’ve felt and lived a life dictated by this thing–this homosexuality. Which depresses me. Don’t get me wrong, my flesh loves the attention that I get in regard to this and the things I say about it. The praise of men is enticing. But even amidst that, I don’t want homosexuality to be me. I don’t want people’s first thought when hearing my name or seeing my face to be “oh that abstinent gay guy”——-I want them to think… “Jesus”
My true identity is all wrapped up in Jesus Christ— not this thing I’ve entangled myself in. How many times have I told people that homosexuality does not have to define them? Countless times.. countless! Yet I’ve fallen for the lie myself. The enemy wants us to get all wrapped up in the wrong things—even if we have kind of the right motives while getting wrapped up in them. My over-focus on homosexuality has been in part out of my desire to help other people who struggle with it…. but how in the world do I think I’m going to help people learn to look past this weakness to the bigger picture of Jesus Christ if I myself am so intently focused on the wrong thing too?
I think that I’ve also been using my focus on homosexuality as a defense mechanism—because deep down I feel inadequate compared to other guys, because of these feelings that I have. I think that subconsciously I tell myself that if I do lots of big Kingdom things and because of those things lots of people are saved and strengthened, then other people won’t think less of me. In some way, I’ve tricked myself into believing that doing bold things, like writing and speaking about homosexuality, make up for the “lack” in my “manliness” due to my same sex attractions. But that’s all a lie.
I may be a man of weakness, but In my weaknesses I will boast because it’s in those things that Christ makes Himself strong for all to see. I am a man who may be different from other men, but I am not any lesser than they—grace empowers me to be and do more for the Kingdom of God than most men ever would. I’m not going to view my self as lesser than others because I’m different than others—-but that’s a whole ‘nother blog post. I just want to encourage whoever’s reading this to not let your mind and affections get all caught up in your weaknesses, failures, or even specific ministry avenues. Get caught up in Jesus. That’s where the real Life is. That’s where the worth, love and identity is.
I’m going to keep striving to help people who are caught up in this sin. I’m going to continue to write on it. But I am not, from this point forward, going to let myself believe that I am defined by this. Homosexuality is a thorn I suffer, yes. God has given me the ministry of helping those who also suffer, yes. I must think about this thing and pray for myself and others in regard to this, yes. But in all that, homosexuality is not me. My identity, who I am at the core of my being, is defined by God….nothing else. I am more than my weaknesses. I’m not going to pretend that I fully know exactly who I am, in relation to Christ… but I know that only in setting Him as the focal point of my journey in this life will I ever find out. But of this much I’m sure—-Matt Moore is much more than what he thinks that he is, not because of any good thing he’s done….. but because in Christ, God has made him more than he ever deserved to be.
Lord, help me to believe these things more fully and walk in a confidence in You that doesn’t peer away at other things and people for affirmation and satisfaction.
I have one word, “Wow”! This is the most beautiful post I have ever had the pleasure of reading. Thank you so much for sharing your life with us. I have had a few rough days on my blog based on my own struggle with understanding homosexuality as being a sin. I don’t understand it because I have never been in your shoes. I am blessed to have read your post because you make me understand things that I can’t learn from other Christians. The ones on my bags just want to degrade and bash and throw scripture around. I have been feeling down and been considering maybe writing isn’t what God wants for me? I will keep going after reading your heart and pray I can touch just one person in this way. I will never be 100% right, but I pray to be a good example of Christ’s love. Thank you, Matt Moore.
Like you, I have struggled with sexual sin and depression. Your blog has encouraged me to share the inspiration I’ve felt from the Lord. You’re so right that we have to keep our eyes on the Lord at all times and not the things of this world. My goal is to have my life bring glory to God – I want for others to see His glory reflected in my life. (2 Cor 3:18) That is my prayer for you also brother. You’re not a lesser man than any other! Don’t believe that lie.
I am praying for you. Bless you!
Alex
Amen, keep testifying Matt the Lord is pleased with you <3
Jesus should be our only purpose and sharing the gift we have received with others should be our goal daily… We are called to be salt and light in a dark and dying world and you are doing that with your blog and your life. None of us are perfect, we all struggle with one thing or another.and when we allow satan to cloud our minds and bog us down in that sin then we have taken our eyes off Jesus the author and perfector of our faith. Thank you for showing us that we all are guilty of losing sight of the forest for the trees. Know that we support you and are lifting you up in prayer.
I LOVE YOU MATT! YOU ARE SO BEAUTIFUL!
THANK YOU MATT!!!
This is an excellent description of the freedom Christ gives us as we surrender to Him more and more.
Let me encourage you.
I’ve been given this freedom in various areas of my life. And I’ve trashed it at least once in each area where I’ve been freed. And it took me a while to wallow in my filth before I realized what I was doing. It took a while to feel the conviction sufficiently to pick myself up and agree with God it is sin and confess our sins to God, change and turn back to God. But the more I walked with God, focused on God, talked with God, the less pull the sin had on me.
Sometimes even though we are forgiven, we don’t feel forgiven. In times like that, we need to remember that its not about US, but its about GOD. We need to recognize God’s love and compassion and APPEAL to God for mercy and grace. We need to ASK for that forgiveness we’ve already received. We need to AGREE with God about what we’ve done. We need to ACKNOWLEDGE that God really wants our hidden places, our minds and hearts. We need to ACCEPT the changes God makes in us – a cleansed self, a forgiven self, a renewed ability to rejoice in our salvation, a new heart and a willing and faithful spirit. And we need to acclaim who God is and what He’s done in our lives.
Amen! Thank you for that!
It is always beneficial for us to be reminded to keep our eyes on Jesus. Thanks for that, Matt.
@ Matt- I think for many ‘gays’ (dang I do hate labels) homosexuality is not a lifestyle but LIFE. For others it’s a trial. Anyways I think your friend is very fortuntate to have a friend like you, even though the current blog theme bogs down mobile and abundantly cheap devices like my crappy cell. Ok see you
enabled the mobile theme
@Matt
…and the next time I call it won’t be about gay stuff but rather that Kristen Stewart topic I keep encouraging you to write on but u keep procrastinating! Sheesh, don’t you see a hot topic when it’s handed to you?!!….tsh, clueless country boy.
Oh ya good idea thanks
We all have a “stamp” of sinner on our foreheads in some form or fashion, however Christ has wiped the stain from out of our lives and it is He who transforms. This has been the tough issue that I, personally, have faced. Too often I have found myself smothering in self-loathing because I allowed satan to deceive me back into forgetting that it’s not me that I am dependant on. These are the times that I have been at my weakest. I am 100% with you on this, Matt! Because of my past sins I, too, have been wearing them like a scarlet letter. Quite often Satan keeps certain sins in the mix not only because of the enticement of the sin, itself, but also by way of others. Those who either know and don’t want to forgive or perhaps say that forgiveness is given but don’t find it in their heart to forgive AND forget… which is a huge way Satan has of keeping the sin “in your face”. I do understand that there are consequences in this life to certain sins and this is a God approved circumstance. For instance, when someone commits murder he may totally change his life and turn to God, but he still has to spend time in prison or may even lose his life over the offense. The most important part to remember is that God is to be central and no matter how severe our sins have been (or what they have been), He truly forgives and finds usefullness in the life of anyone who will allow Him to lead. Thanks for the thoughts, Matt, as always!!
Matt, I am so proud of you and what you are doing! What a fabulous post. There are many out there who are like you in these same struggles, and yet they are straight; the sin of lust is no respecter of persons and entangles many, many straight people as well. Continue in your work, brother, I know you are an encourager to many!
There is no degree of sin with God! That’s what the scripture says not me. And in another place, For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God. And yet another says, Our righteousness is but filthy rags before God. Matt remember the passage that talks about the law? It’s not by works lest any man should boast. You must realize that YOU WILL FAIL TO BE PERFECT. Jesus is the only perfect one to ever walk the earth! As far as you feeling good when you get recognized remember, If we do good things to be praised by people we have our reward but if we do good things for God’s glory then shall our reward be in heaven.
It’s ironic what we allow to dictate our lives, when we focus on Jesus, the cloud is lifted, the truth revealed, we can begin to see clearly what is truly important and what needs to dictate our lives, Jesus!
I have been facing this same dilemma in my life with my own issues. Thank you for reminding me that I am more because Christ is more in me… Thank you!
Matt,
Thanks for this reminder. In ministry, I’ve found that it can become an idle and as we are going along continually getting praise from men and feeling like a bit of a “christian rock star”, God has an amazing way of bringing us back to the cross, to his feet, and the blood that He shed. Occasionally, I find myself in this frame of thought allowing myself to be defined by the gifts and callings God has put on my life, but if we do that, what happens if those things are taken away? I think I would feel lost and without a purpose, but your post has reminded me that God defines me and the whole world could pass away, the ministry I have I could lose tomorrow, but none of that would break me because like the awesome Third Day song says, “nothing compares to the greatness of knowing You Lord”!!! One day when we stand before Him and behold Him, we will know that all the suffering in life was worth paradise with Him, entering His rest forever!!
My dad once told me that when a Christian falls, he (or she) doesn’t fall down the mountain, he just falls down. When we fail, all we have to do is stand up. Choosing to accept God’s grace time after time is one of the ways God teaches us how complete it is. We must accept it as soon as we have the rationale to do it, even if it feels embarrassing or awkward. We need to accept God’s grace immediately. Dwelling on our failures does not give glory to God, and self-punishment is not a godly sign of repentance. We must understand the difference between guilt and conviction. Guilt is not from the Lord. It stifles us and condemns us long after we have repented. Conviction is from the Lord and it ceases the moment we repent. God commands us to accept His grace and move on in full faith that God forgives immediately and completely, even if the world still condemns. At first, this may seem…unnatural, but God’s grace is unique. There is no grace like His grace and no love like His love.
I believe the greatest battles we fight are in our minds. We must CHOOSE to dwell on truth. For me, a huge change came in my life when I decided to acknowledge that the music I listen to has the potential either to hurt me or to help me. It took me years to finally come to this point, but I have absolutely no regrets. I am no longer daily indoctrinated with lies.
Cool post Matt! I was talking to a friend last night and telling her how my interaction with people changed nearly immediately on giving my life to Jesus Christ. I’ve always been very much a loner and not much of a talker in groups. I would generally just watch and think my thoughts. But after I was saved I suddenly had a different feeling in me. I started wanting to search people out. And talk to them! Most shocking. I described it to her as like when I was at work and put on my white coat and suddenly had great confidence in dealing with perfect strangers without so much as a by your leave. Joking, laughing, completely at ease – frankly, I freaked myself out at times. I mean, ‘Who are you?!’ I wanted to ask myself. Even when intimate or embarrassing issues were being discussed – I didn’t even so much as blink. But it was because when I had my white coat on my authority and identity was now invested in it – I was no longer me. I stopped being me as soon as I put on that white coat.
And she said, quite matter of factly, ‘Yea, you put on Jesus Christ.’ I had never quite thought of it that way.
Rom 13:14 But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh, to fulfill its lusts.
Love being a Christian!
Amen Matt! Thank you for writing this. I tell you the truth, God is using you to help me. He is using you as a much needed example, if I ever did need one! When you feel as passionate as I do and as you do about helping people through this struggle, it is easy to get lost in the lie. Now I am aware of it, thank you.
Matt,
The biggest issue I have with this blog post is what is implied. You say that you life has been dictated by your attraction to the same sex. You do realize that it is the same way for every boy growing up. Even straight boys/men are equally obsessed…. Though toward the opposite sex. What you have experienced is not unique. It is the experience of virtually every young man who has ever existed.
Where you experiences differ from others is that you’ve allowed well-intentioned Christians to convince you that these God given attractions are wrong. Your desire for intimacy is natural. The more you suppress your desire for that intimacy the more your body and mind are going to crave it. What you are doing is emotionally and physically abusive to yourself. Just as your mind and body needs food and water, your mind, body and soul need love and affection. God gave you these desires and needs.
Actually an obsession with anything that comes before the Lord, whether with gay sex or straight sex, money, power, status, security, even with doing good works (think Martha vs. Mary), is to place that thing as an idol before the Lord. Of course a desire for intimacy is “natural”, that is God-created. “It is not good for man to be alone.” Then God made woman as a perfect complement to man, and also ordered our other relationships outside of male-female marriage to provide for needs for fellowship, etc. Sin comes from us trying to fulfill God-given desires in ways that separate us from God, beginning with the Fall (all fruit but one was allowed, which we chose in rebellion, not to meet any unmet needs) through Cain’s murder of Abel (meeting his need for approval wrongly) through Sodom and Gomorrah through David’s adultery and murder and so on and so on. Same-sex attraction is not God-given, but a corruption from the Fall. Desire for extra-marital and pre-marital sex is not God-given, but a corruption from the Fall. James, what you are at root refusing to acknowledge is the sin problem of all humanity for which the blood of Jesus is the only possible and (fortunately) the all-sufficient solution.
James, the second paragraph is erroneous in it’s entirety. Yes, our feeling and emotions, commonly known as the flesh, is always contrary to God’s purpose for our lives. Our flesh seeks what feels good and we learn from the Bible that oppressing the desires of our flesh and following the teaching of Jesus are the ways of redemption and repentance. You stated that overriding these temptations causes us to want them more. Let me assure you that standing our ground against these things will not lead to mental decay but will in fact bring us closer to Almighty God. Our minds have no need for food or water, barring God’s “food and water” we obtain from reading and studying His infallible word. The desires that God imparts to us, after salvation, are the desires for wisdom and understanding of the Bible. However, I necessitate intimacy, not from the passions of my flesh, but to be closer to the Righteous and Eternal God. I hope this will help you to understand and that God will bring you to salvation through repentance.
Matt,
I understand the sense of depression and emptiness because I have personally been going thru it lately. It is easy to lose sight of Christ and get our focus on our struggles. God has been really dealing me about the living reality of Christ being real beyond just knowledge in our heads and how the world without the inspiration of the Holy Spirit cannot understand why we choose to live a life that goes against the status being praised by a growing number of celebrities and world leaders. I used to love my old sensual life just living out for the sake of my desires until I woke up to the reality that it was a deceptive trap set by our greatest enemy satan who would prefer that we pretend that he is just a silly myth to scare people. Sin always kills though not always evident. We are all born spiritually dead so until we have a taste of the coming kingdom it makes no sense to give up our sensuality to follow Christ. I am praying that you personally experienced the power of the Holy Spirit in a new way that helps you experience Christ as the early Christians had just like Paul prayed for the Ephesians. The early Christians were witnesses of the Christ and walking advertisements of the transforming power of the Gospel. We as believers in Christ need to seek the power of God by much prayer as the early Church did in the book of Acts. God has not changed but we have changed trusting our eloquence, teaching methods and other techniques instead of the Holy Spirit to overcome our flesh and to become a walking billboard for Christ. We need to know the gospel as given by Christ and the apostles but without the Holy Spirit, it is just an empty echo of a reality that they had but not real to us. Seek God in prayer much with other believers until we are empowered to be a new generation of witnesses for Christ which demonstrate the reality of Christ not just with mere words. I encourage you to read fresh power by Jim Cymbala who is the pastor of Brooklyn Tabernacle. It is not about crazy stuff some like people do in the name of the Holy Spirit but the power to live a victorious life over the flesh and the world. This is how we win arguments about the issue of sexual orientation by demonstrating that Christ changes lives inside out not just put on a bandage to help us cope. Abide in Christ and walk in the Spirit and we will not gratify the desires of the flesh.
AMEN MATT! Thank you so much brother, I really neede to hear this today.God is so good! Once again I appreciate your honesty. I can so relate to some of the things you said in this post. I too struggle with longing for a “pat on the back” of approval from people. Thank you for reminding me that Christ is my life! Not my struggles with sin, my failures in it, or other peoples approval. My identity is in Him alone! God has used you once again to encourage others, thanks for your obedience. {2CORINTHIANS 1:3,4}. SELAH.
I think my whole life has been driven by the desire to gain other people’s approval and acceptance. And it’s not only about my sexuality, but about everything. I’ve always had such a fear of rejection and since I’ve experienced real rejection (from family members and friends) that fear has only gotten worse. I want to let go of everything and just throw myself at God, but there’s a little part of me that keeps holding back. And now I have to deal with my boyfriend who will be back home from overseas tomorrow. I just want to hide somewhere.
Dear Michael,
That is the beauty of God – YOU don’t have to figure it out. Pray – He will show you the way. Things will happen – and then it will only be up to you to decide to take His hand.
Be blessed and know that God wants to carry your burden!
Love,
Sarel
Michael,
I think every one of us has this little part of us that holds back. Its one reason why so many refuse to come to Christ. But if you are serious, pray to God. Ask Him to be saved, to be set free, to be one of His adoptive children. Tell Him of the things you know you’ve done that He would not want you to do. Turn over your life, your troubles, your fears, your inadequacies, everything. Doing so does not mean you wont have temptations or problems – everyone does. But it means you will begin to trust God, little by little, with your life. It also means you wont be alone. God will be there every step of the way, even if it is hard. God bless!
The reality is, all of us humans are weak. ONLY God has the strength we need, so let your failures motivate you to pursue God and not the evil substitutes.
I blogged about this. It has been something that has been on my mind for sometime after reading your testimonies. My Aunt sent one of your blogs to me, in an effort to show me there are people out there who struggle with homosexuality… But have chosen to abstain from it. And this is my testimony…
http://daneerik1985.blogspot.com/2012/08/the-bible-and-homosexuality.html
Dane,
I think it is good that you are considering this topic. Keep thinking and praying. There are a lot more elements to it than just Leviticus. My own thoughts on the topic is that while God puts no boundaries on love, He puts a lot on sex. Remember, everyone, no matter what their sexual orientation, has been given a body that is only sexual compatible with the opposite sex. Why is God doing this to people? If people are made gay by God, why are they not given a body that can fullfill their sexual desires though healthy sexual intercourse? Also, there are people out there who are sexually attracted to children and their desires are intense as those of us who are hetero and homosexual. Where they born that way too? Did God make them that way? And if so, does he want them to fullfill their desires? After all, Jesus never said a word about man/child relationships.
Also,look at Mark 7:20 where Jesus says “What comes out of a person is what defiles them. 21 For it is from within, out of a person’s heart, that evil thoughts come—sexual immorality, theft, murder, 22 adultery, greed, malice, deceit, lewdness, envy, slander, arrogance and folly. 23 All these evils come from inside and defile a person.” I think he is talking about all Biblical sexual sin: with close relatives, animals, prostitution, and yes, homosexuality. If you are going to make the case that Jesus wasn’t refering to homosexual sex it must be better than “Jesus never taked about” He didn’t dicuss incest or beastality either.
well said. It is not true that Jesus did not talk about it, because the word here for “sexual immorality” is in Greek “porneia” (which the word pornography comes from) and includes all sexual sins, homoseuality among them. Jesus also adhered to the Law, and in Matthew 18:6 Jesus said “But whoever is a cause of trouble to one of these little ones who have faith in me, it would be better for him to have a great stone fixed to his neck, and to come to his end in the deep sea.” He also said, “Scripture cannot be broken” John 10:35. Jesus also spoke about marriage and about not even looking at someone with lust, because all sin begins in the heart. More and more christians are letting go of ALL morality re: sex.. belitteling it, justifying it etc etc etc. Sure, it’s super hard, but we”re supposed to strive for perfection, not ignore it, deny or distort it. Mt 5:48.
Michael,
I’m sorry to hear how you are feeling. Please don’t listen to the hogwash from other posters. Jesus isn’t some kind of panacea for all our physical and emotional issues. I’m not trying to tell you to run from God, but it sounds like you could use some therapy. Most of us gays end up broken individuals in our early adulthood. Just as Dane mentioned in his excellent blog post, we have so much negativity thrown in our face from a very early age….. “fear of rejection” is par for the course for most of us… and it usually isn’t the worst of our issues to deal with. Everything will be fine. You will have to deal with rejection in your life. All of us have to. A good therapist will help learn to deal with it in a healthy, productive way.
Dane,
You rock. With this thought, you show how silly the “gay is bad” argument really is:
“Yet, I couldn’t help but feel that he was enslaving himself by suppressing something that came natural to him. The reason I believe it came naturally was through previous blogs he wrote. So, I thought, it may bring him joy to quit fighting his negative self-talk and societal pressures regarding his sexuality. I mean who wouldn’t find relief from avoiding all of the negative connotations associated with being gay………
Can you imagine spending the rest of your life fighting off something that comes as natural as breathing? What kind of quality of life can you enjoy, when you suppress your desire to love and be loved in return? Yes, people can confuse love with a sexual attraction and infatuation. But, who’s to say homosexual love is any different that heterosexual? The only difference is the sex of the partner.”
I don’t understand how anyone could believe that God would have a problem with loving someone that you are innately attracted to. How could God condemn that? If you really believe that God condemns this….. why would you want to worship such a cruel God?
Dear James,
Why are you so against Michael saying a simple prayer and giving his life to Jesus? You afraid God will answer it?
He will you know.
What I’m against is Christians using pray as a fix for emotional problems. I’m not against pray. By all means say as many prayers as you like. But by all means, do the hard work (therapy) to find a real and practical solution to your problem.
Well, James, I tried therapy – and medication. I tried for ten years so you can’t say I didn’t give it my best. They didn’t fix the problem. Prayer and Jesus however worked very, very well indeed. You aren’t made whole overnight but I look back a year and hardly recognise myself. And it DOES involve hard work one your part. But it is the Holy Spirit Who runs the program – and He knows what He’s doing. You ALWAYS see results.
And you can’t argue with results.
I agree with you Sarelpetrus. I majored in Psychology and I still felt empty. I thought, if I only had a husband…I had one for almost 10 yrs and even though we loved each other we confessed to the other, almost at the same time, that we wanted to serve God and felt us being sexual was wrong. By the way, prayer is not something you wait until you are at the end of your rope to do. I encourage you, Michael to repent and be saved. James I encourage you to do the same.
Michael just remember that the One you are praying to created everything, and yet He is happy to offer you salvation through the blood of His son Jesus Christ.
Results? Or self brain washing?
You can’t fix something that isn’t broken in the first place. Life is so much simpler and joyful when we accept and embrace the cards we are dealt.
Why? I didn’t like the cards I was dealt. So I gave them to Jesus and He gave me something infinitely more precious. I now have REAL joy and peace. I actually now know what ‘joy inexpressible’ means. Do you?
You seem to forget one thing: I’ve been where you are now. I once believed what you believe. I’m not the brain washed one here. Of the two of us, I’m the only one who’s seen BOTH sides of the equation.
You might not get this but God loves you. Why not ask Him to show Himself to you? I mean – can you imagine anything more wonderful than meeting your Creator? You won’t regret it. Promise.
So, Jesus gave you a redeal? I’m not buying it. I too have been on BOTH sides of the equation. You have not revelation that I haven’t experienced myself. I suppose I’m brainwashed because I looked inside myself and accepted myself for who I was …. Instead of hopelessly trying to pretend I was something that I’m not. Even some basic psychological theories turn your sexual world view upside down. If we look at Maslow’s hierarchy of needs, you’ve thrown out at least three very important needs: Physiological (sex), Love and Belonging (Sexual intimacy) and Self Actualization (acceptance of facts). How can anyone be a psychologically and emotionally healthy person by throwing away such basic human needs. Are you going to tell me that Jesus somehow fills those holes in your life? It is interesting that most of us non-catholics can look at the celibacy requirements for priests and nuns and see how completely unnecessary and unhealthy they are. Yet the Catholics find Scripture to back up their beliefs. I don’t see the gay issue as any different. We humans have basic needs for love and physical intimacy. Any God who would give us those basic needs and then demand that you not fulfill those needs is cruel and vindictive. Either you are wrong about us gays, or your God is cruel.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow's_hierarchy_of_needs
“I mean – can you imagine anything more wonderful than meeting your Creator?” – Absolutely I can: Experiencing and giving love to my family, friends and partner.
Listen, I feel for you. I feel for Matt. I’ve been where you are. I drank the Koolaid. The only reason I frequent this board is to share my truth. I want everyone here to be happy, but all I see are a lot of lonely, sad people. God loves you just the way you are. He would not put a restriction on me that he wouldn’t expect also from my straight brother. My brother gets to experience love and sex just because he likes chicks? I don’t think so. God would want all your God given needs met
But “your” truth is worth about as much as “my” truth, which is nothing, zero. Jesus said, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father but through Me.” The reason you so glibly dismiss the testimony of so many here who have been brought to know the Truth in Jesus is that you cling to “your” truth, and likely did so in the time you say you tried Christianity. Could be the problem was that you “tried” Christianity as one would try a headache remedy, but never became crucified with Jesus, so the life you live is by faith in the Son of God, who loved you and gave Himself up for you. (Galatians2:20)
Milton,
History is rife with examples of people blindly following someone’s teaching to their and societies detriment. I’ll ask you the question: Are you wrong about the Biblical teaching regarding gays, or is God cruel?
Dear James,
“because I looked inside myself and accepted myself for who I was”
The fact that you say this proves that you have in fact NOT seen both sides. Looking inside yourself for answers is New Age doctrine (which I tried, by the way – it didn’t work). The whole point of being a Christian is not looking inside yourself for answers – you look to God. The whole point is not accepting yourself but in fact dying to yourself and becoming a new creation. That is why you will never understand me – I’m different from you in a way you can’t figure out.
You see – that is why my joy is assured and constant – it is not seated in myself. I find my joy in Jesus Christ. My whole identity is in Jesus Christ. It took me a long time to figure this out, but boy, was I glad when I did! Because: I will always let myself down. People will always let me down. The government will always let me down. My family will always let me down. The weather will always let me down. But Jesus is always the same, always available, always has been, always will be. He will NEVER let me down – never has either.
I am in no way pretending to be something I’m not. In fact, I know precisely who I am – and that makes me very, very happy. And you might not understand this but I COULDN’T CARE LESS ABOUT SEX. Blow your mind? Blows my mind to. I’m celibate and happy and the sky didn’t fall. And lonely – are you kidding me? Look – God isn’t a fairy tale. He exists. He’s with me. Right this second. When I wake up in the middle of the night – He’s there. He’s there for me in a way that no other human can be – or ever has been. He makes me laugh when I’m crying. When I feel down He finds a way to get a message to me to cheer me up. Do you know what it’s like to get a message from the Almighty God? The only way that God won’t be enough for me IN EVERY WAY is if I don’t let Him. And that would just be silly.
And you want me to exchange all this for anything this twisted little planet can offer me? No thanks. My cup runneth over. Even in tribulations my joy is assured. (Joy is different from being happy by the way. You can feel joy even while sad.)
Regarding Maslow – who cares what he thought? I tried the human solutions. I tried ‘satisfying my needs’. It’s an exercise in futility.
Anyway dude – I need to move along. God doesn’t make anyone come to Him and I’m definitely not going to try make you do anything either. But if you settle it in your heart to know the truth regardless of what you may view as the cost, then I believe one day it will come find you.
Be well and good luck in your travels,
Sarel
Sure sounds like Jesus let you down by making you gay. Just saying.
Dear James,
God didn’t make me gay. It’s complicated how I got to be this way. Am I angry with God for being this way? I wouldn’t dream of it. It’s not His fault and my hope is that somehow He will use my SSA to reveal His total awesomeness and that His name will be glorified. Why is that all that’s important to me? Because I love Him. Before I knew Him I didn’t even have a clue what love was. He showed me by showering His love on me. He didn’t stop doing so even when I messed up. And that just made me love Him even more.
My wish is for everyone to experience this. Why wait? You’ll only regret it later.
Sarel
I agree with you, Sarel. I am not interested in sex either, now. There was a time when I battled that, it seemed like every day, but the battle was not because I was unhappy with God but because I wanted to please my flesh. Then God stepped in and helped me to realize that if I keep my focus on Him then I will be ok. As for being alone, I’m not alone, I have the Holy Ghost with me all the time. It is the biggest mistake that a person can make when they begin to believe that they are smarter than God or that God will just have to take them as they are because they didn’t want to do things His way. To answer the other guys questions: Most defiantly I want to serve my God and He is in no way cruel, His judgements are righteous! Next: you can’t rely on the wisdom of man. Even if he is the smartest person in the whole world, God is eternally smarter. Maslow? I just answered that question. Yes James, I AM VERY HAPPY! I don’t tell lies and God is my witness and judge.
Sarel….I am somewhat speechless. Blown away, completely blessed the evidence of the Holy Spirit in your life. Please, please do not stop writing! You have no idea the impact you are having on lives of those who have a heart to please God and hopefully, those who could not care less about it. Your story, your experience, your passion are pure poetry to my soul. The Lord Jesus Christ is using you to minister to me in a powerful way! God bless you <3
Here is what we need to know about God.
God demands submission from us. Those who do not submit, He will cast into an inescapable, everlasting Lake of Fire, where they will be tormented in the presence of the holy angels and the Lamb, the smoke of their torment arises forever and ever, and they have no rest day nor night. We can not cast Him into the Lake of Fire, stop Him from casting anyone else into the Lake of Fire, nor rescue anyone from the Lake of Fire.
I really do not care if you think God is cruel. What matters is that God is Lord of Lords and King of Kings, He does as He pleases, He answers to no one, and His might makes right.
Imagine having such power. To do anything you want without the possibility of anyone else stopping you. To be whatever you want, without the possibility of anyone else stopping you. To be justified in anything you do, simply because of your station. To be able to condemn your enemies to eternal torment and torture, without the possibility of anyone else stopping you. How tempting it is to covet such power, such glory! And yet, God will not share this power with anyone outside the Godhead. That power and glory is His, and His alone.
Wow! You really want to worship that kind of God? You make him sound worse that I did.
God is Power Personified. That is one of the reasons I praise and worship Him.
Dear Shoes Thrower,
Just an aside. I’ve always found your name very amusing. Last night I was lying in bed and started thinking about your name. Shoes Thrower. Shoes Thrower? SHOES THROWER?! Then I started laughing. I laughed till I cried – and then kept going. I had the giggles for I don’t know how long. It was great. Thanks!
Sarel
BTW, I don’t think God is cruel, but you seem to think so.
If God were only the things you mentioned (all of which are true), then He would be no better than Allah, or even Cthullu. No wonder James thinks the only two options are that the Bible is wrong about homosexuality or that God is cruel. Fortunately, God is also entirely good, righteous, fair (not in our corrupted human idea of “fairness”) and loving. Hence, sarelpetrus, Davide, Gene, Matt, me, and others live a life of open-eyed, clear-minded, set-free-from-sin joy past all understanding in the new life that Jesus died and rose for us to have, if only we will give up our very own soiled, defiled, tattered, dark, small self-self-self to Jesus for Him to clean, regenerate, free, strengthen, broaden, enlarge into a life we could not have imagined before.
Shoes thrower, I encourage you to find the joy of your salvation rather than the cowering obedience of a slave. “No longer do I call you slaves, for the slave does not know what his master is doing; but I have called you friends, for all things that I have heard from My Father I have made known to you.” (John 15:15)
James, I encourage you to ask the living Jesus to make Himself known to you. If you ask truly in your heart, ready to receive the answer He longs to give you, I guarantee you will not just be talking to yourself. Jesus is real, alive, and He will answer the ready ear and heart.
Milton,
shoes thrower is correct, God demands we obey Him. He love us, frees is, cleanses us, heals us, but He will also judge us. If we truly trust, love, and obey God through faith in Christ, then we are given His righteousness. But we must love and obey in response to God. Otherwise, we only have a saying faith and not a saving faith. There are many who will claim to know Christ, but only those who love God and others will be recognized by Christ. We are told in scriptire that those who obey God are God’s children.
wbmoore, read my reply to shoes thrower again,
Of course the true God is all-powerful and utterly soverign. You do, of course, know that Islam means “submission”, and the Quran claims the same power and sovereignty for Allah. And of course God will judge each and every one of us. Those in Christ will be judged by Christ’s imputed righteousness, those not in Christ will be judged by their own unrighteousness.
But nowhere in the Quran does Allah claim to love us, let alone become one of us and die in our place for our sins. Without love, goodness, grace and mercy along with the other true attributes Shoes Thrower described, the God of Israel would indeed be indistinguishable from the false god Allah or the science-fiction god Cthullu.
Milton,
There is soooo much error in the church because of an inaccurate view of God. There are some who would err on the side of focusing only on the love and mercy and grace of God to the exclusion of God’s holiness, righteousness, judgement, justice and wrath. Others focus on only the latter attributes to the exclusion of the former attributes. One must focus on all of the attributes of God or it will lead to error.
I find in settings like this, people would prefer to focus upon God’d love, but they want to be free to sin. God said dont do that. We are to be holy and righteous and live worthy of our calling.
James, my blog wasn’t meant to say God is a sham and that He is cruel. My intent was to say that God loves gay people no matter what. What needed to be reconsidered is what the original Greek meanings of the words, the interpretation, and what THE CHURCH has been teaching for years. I think you should seriously re-read what I said. Here’s just a portion of what I was talking about:
“Unfortunately, I think a lot of those in the gay lifestyle feel angered toward God, when in reality they should be angry with the men who preached lies over the years…”
http://daneerik1985.blogspot.com/2012/08/the-bible-and-homosexuality.html
Oh wait, I get what you are saying…. You are saying that God doesn’t hate people who are gay.
Good. I’m glad you got what I was trying to say. Essentially, I’m trying to point out that the God that I understand from the Bible would NEVER allow someone to be gay….. OR….. being gay and experiencing love is not “wrong” in God’s eyes. I wish for more critical thinking on these topics….. not a bunch of emply cliches about who God is and what he wants from us.
“Professing themselves wise they became fools.” Romans 1:22 “Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall” I Cor. 10:12 “Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.” Ephes. 5:6 “Shun profane and vain babbling: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.” II Tim 2:16 “But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.” II Tim 2:23 “For the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God.” James 1:20
james with all due respect why do even come here? What are your goals?
See a few posts up.
ya i did im still unable to connect the dots.
“Listen, I feel for you. I feel for Matt. I’ve been where you are. I drank the Koolaid. The only reason I frequent this board is to share my truth. I want everyone here to be happy, but all I see are a lot of lonely, sad people. God loves you just the way you are.”
Huh? You feel 4 me? You must be very happy. Yes it is true God loves for who I am. What’s there not to love? I’m awesome!!! And so are you!
Matt,
The Lord continues to use you to inspire, encourage and bring strength to me and so many!
Christ in me, the hope of glory!
Blessings brother!
I remember something that JoAnn McFatter shared many years ago when God spoke to her heart…
“You’re not a sinner struggling to love God. You’re a lover of God who sometimes struggles with sin. Your battle never defines you.”
Okay. My boyfriend Jay is home from overseas and what does he tell me? That he decided to give his life to Jesus. That he doesn’t know what that will mean for our relationship but he trusts that God will show the way. I tossed and turned all night worrying over this. And obsessing over What if this happens? What if that happens? And this morning when I was putting dishes in the dishwasher (of all things) a thought just hit me. JUST LET GO. Let go of it all. What are you waiting for??? So I did. I knelt down on the kitchen floor and I prayed to Jesus to take over my life too. I prayed for Him to take my worries and fears and confusion and ALL my problems. Beacause I cannot deal with it alone anymore! And I cried my EYES OUT!! I did. It was like the floodgates are open!! So I took that first step. Finally. I thought I would never get there.
That’s awesome, Michael!
I’m glad you are letting it go. Only you and God knows what has happened for sure. It sounds as if you changed and turned to God, trusting God provided His Son to live a sinless life and die for your sins. If not, that’s the next step.
John 6:28-29
We must turn from following our own desires and follow God, which is what sounds like you may have done. The Apostle Paul wrote in Acts 26:20,
Once that’s done, the next thing is to relax and let God. He will work in us to give us the desire and ability to do His will. We are to avoid sin and pursue righteousness – we show our faith with our lives.
Timothy 2:22
This is what Paul wrote in Romans 13 even more clearly.
Romans 13:8-10
If you trust God, He will work in you to desire and act in accordance to His will.
Philippians 2:13
Trusting God doesnt mean life wont have uncertainties, or wont be hard. It means GOD will work it out.
Dear Michael,
My heart leapt with joy when I read this! This is how God works! He is very practical. He opens doors! And He knows us – more importantly, He knows YOU. He knows what you need better than you do. He will NEVER expect of you to do the impossible. He Himself will open the doors and take your hand and lead you. When your knees are buckling, He will carry you. You will never stand alone again!
Now a word of caution: times of doubt will come. There will be times when you will find it SO very hard to trust in God. Is He really there? It is very hard for us to believe in something we can’t see with our eyes. When you come to these moments: cling to Jesus Christ. He is your Rock. Your thoughts and emotions are easy prey for the enemy – that’s why at moments like these, when doubts and fears threaten to steal your faith, you simply DECIDE to cling to God. You use your free will – nothing can touch that.
And what will happen? God will come through for you. If you place your trust in Him He WILL come through for you – and it will blow your mind! God does not expect us to have this amazing all conquering faith from the word go. Sure, He can give it to us, but then you won’t grow as much spiritually; we don’t mature.
I have been through my struggles this past year – doubts, fears, panics, tears – you name it. (I’ve only been walking with God for a mere 15 months – and yet SO much has changed!) But I always just went: I trust, I trust, I trust, I believe, I believe, I believe – even when I didn’t feel it, even when darkness threatened. And what did I find? God ALWAYS came through for me. EVERYTIME!
And so my faith has grown. Sometimes God doesn’t answer you immediately – you have to wait awhile. You have to trust, persevere, hope. This builds your faith. Because when God then answers you (and it will be in a way that proves that it is Him answering you) your heart will leap with joy! At times this past year my life felt like a battleground. But God was always there with a little word here, a little gesture there to keep my hope alive. And where do I now stand? I have entered into the rest of God. I now know that I know that I KNOW that I can trust God.
Read your Bible! I can not emphasize this enough! This is your LIFELINE! This is where you find strength, where you go seek answers. FIRST seek the Kingdom – God will take care of the rest. Place God in the Number 1 position in your life and He will uphold you with His righteous right hand.
When I just came to faith I latched onto Psalm 91. I read it first thing on waking up, I read it at night before bed, whenever I needed, I read it. Take it. It is God’s promise for you, my brother!
Much love,
Sarel
Glory to God!!! Wonderful news and welcome to the Kingdom, my brother Michael! What an adventure of a new life awaits you! I look forward to knowing you forever in Heaven, even if we never meet face-to-face on earth.
May the God of all mercies continue to work in your lives! Lean on Him, study His word (the King James Version) some people say it’s hard to understand, it’s not. A dictionary is all you need.
Dear Bryan,
I’m not going to get into a King James Only debate here but I can just say that sticking to the original King James for months in my early walk really slowed my growth because it IS hard to understand. I switched to a New King James and am happy with it. But I wouldn’t use any Bible though that tries to interpret what the Bible says instead of simply saying what it says and leaving me to figure out what is meant.
Be blessed!
Sarel
Michael,
I’d like to hear more about how far along your are in the knowledge of God’s word. God has a definite pattern which we all must follow in order to be acceptable in His sight. Just thought I’d ask and also am so happy to hear that you are opening yourself up to the way of righteousness!
I have been reading the Bible but want to join the Bible study group that I was told about. And there is my prayer time I vow to do every day. Not just when I feel like it. What do you mean by pattern? Like obeying the Ten Commandments?
Hi Michael! I’m so happy to hear from you! Also happy to hear about your reading times and intent upon joining a group for bible study! My comment was just trying to get a feeling of where you are on your spiritual journey. Yes, God does have a specific course to follow in becoming one of His and a path which is rather narrow to walk while we are living in this fleshly tent in which we currently reside. God, in His infinite wisdom, has given us all that we need to know as pertaining to life and Godliness within His written word. However, it often helps to have someone who has been on that walk for a long while to help you sort it out. If you’d allow me to do so, I’d be happy to pass along the things I’ve learned along with scriptural referrences to back it up. So let me know and I’ll start sending along.
That sounds great, Gene. Thanks!
Great! Let’s first do an “overview” of the name “Christian” to learn what scripture says. The name Christian is one of the most misused Words in our vocabulary. The term is used only three times in the Scriptures (Acts 11:26; 26:28; 1 Peter. 4:16), and each time it has reference to individuals who are followers, disciples, or even trailers of Christ. It is always used as a noun, never as an adjective. Many have assumed the name Christian rather than having it assigned to them by God. Let us take notice that there are many such people today in our generation, as well. Not all good people are Christians. Just because we are good moral people does not mean we have met the requirements for being a child of God (Christian). Nicodemus and Cornelius were both good men (John 3:1-5; Acts 10), but neither were born-again believers. Each had to hear and obey to become a child of God.
Not all religious people are Christians. There were heathens during the day of the apostle Paul who were called religious (Acts 17:22). Paul thought himself to be religious before his own conversion, but he learned that his religion was in vain. There are two types of religion, pure and vain (James. 1:26-27), and MOST religions are vain and false. Joining or attending a church of your choice does not make one a Christian just as sitting in a corn field will not make one a farmer. This is one of the greatest problems today, thinking one can be a Christian no matter which church they might attend. The Bible speaks of one church (Ephesians. 4:4; Matthew. 16:18; Colossians 1:18). There were only Christians in the beginning of the First Century. There were no such things as “hyphenated” Christians. The term Baptist, Catholic, Methodist, Mormon, (etc) -Christian simply did not exist.
At this point we need to consider a question, “Just who are Christians?” First we would note that all who have obeyed the gospel from the heart (Rom. 6:16-18) are Christians. In obeying the gospel from the heart it means we have done as God has instructed us. Those who are really children of God are those who have heard the word of God (Romans. 10:17); believed the word (Mark 16:16); repented of their sins (Luke 13:3-5; cf. 2 Corinthians. 7:10); confessed their faith in Christ (Matthew 10:32-33; Romans 10.:9-10; Acts 8:37; and have been baptized for the remission of their sins (Acts 2:38; Rom. 6:3-5; Gal. 3:26-27). At this point of time one becomes a Christian, a child of God, a member of the Lord’s church (Acts 2:47). Hope this helps Michael and I’d encourage you to read each of these passages to affirm the things I’ve said are, indeed, true. Any questions/comments are definitely encouraged! May God bless you in your journey!!
Gene
Gene,
One thing I wonder is why are there Catholics, Baptists, Methodists etc. Why so many different denominations? How did that all happen?
Hi Michael, so sorry I’ve been so long in reply! Here’s a brief synopsis of the history of what happened in causing the establishment of so many differing churches. In the beginning Jesus said: “I will build my church,” referring to God’s plan to save sinners. This salvation comes through Jesus of Nazareth, “the Christ, the Son of the living God” (Matt. 16:16-18), When Jesus died in order that men might have “the remission of sins,” he “purchased with his own blood” the church (Matt. 26:28; Acts 20:28). Those who are saved in the church are like a body with Jesus the Savior as the head. “There is one body,” and Christ is “head over all things to the church, which is his body” (Eph. 1:22-23; 4:4).
The Apostles of Christ preached the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus as the only hope of mankind for salvation. Sinners were told, “Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,” and, “Arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord” (Acts 2:38; 22:16). “And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved,” and the body of the saved “continued steadfastly” in the teaching of the Apostles and in the pattern God gave for the true church of Christ (Acts 2:42,47).
Christ prayed that his people would continue to be united upon the basis of the teaching he gave through the Apostles. He severely rebuked some who were drifting toward division and commanded them to “all speak the same thing and that there be no divisions among you” (Jn. 17:17-21; 1 Cor. 1:10-13). Paul warned that the problem of division would grow. False teachers would bring new doctrines and start different churches. Some elders, preachers, and other Christians would want to revise the original teaching of the Lord and would change the church to suit themselves (Acts 20:29-30; 1 Tim. 3:1-5; 2 Tim. 4:1-5).
A series of revisions and changes resulted in Boniface III assuming the title “universal bishop” in 606 A.D. in the gradual formation of the Roman Catholic Church with its many new doctrines and practices. In 1054 a formal division occurred between the Roman Catholic and Greek Orthodox churches. Dissatisfaction with the monolithic power, political corruption, and superstitious doctrines of medieval Catholicism led to the creation of several new churches with different creeds and separate organizations. These bodies included the Lutheran Church, which began in Germany (1520); the Anglican Church in Great Britain (1534); and the Reformed and Presbyterian movements in Switzerland (1536). The Congregational Church began in England (1550), the Baptist in Holland (1607), and the Methodist also in England (1739).
All the above churches were to be planted in America and many new groups have appeared here throughout American history, including the Mormons (1830), the Adventists (1830), Christian Scientists (1866), and Jehovah’s Witnesses (1872). In addition a wide range of holiness, pentecostal, and charismatic sects and denominations have appeared.
In short, there are so many denominations because people have left the original teaching of Jesus Christ and formed so many new, different, and diverse doctrines. In the early 1800s many people who were identified with various denominations began to realize that they needed to get back to the Bible pattern of teaching on the plan of salvation, on the church, and on all things. In one community after another, such people met together with a willingness to give up denominational names and doctrines in order to wear only the name of Christ and to follow only the original teaching of Christ. The result has been the restoration of true churches of Christ (Rom. 16:16).
Jesus established his church for the salvation of the world, but he did not build the many diverse denominations which exist today.
Michael, thinking beyond why there are so many churches is the thought as to why people who are of honest hearts who seek truth eventually leave these churches. Here are many of the reasons and in reading each one from the negative standpoint as to why denomoninations are false, we also learn what it is that we should seek in finding the one true church.
1. Physical and emotional displays not found in the Bible. Gospel preaching and worship assemblies in the New Testament never involved jumping, running, shouting, jibber-jabber, spinning around, and fainting. In the days of Christ and the Apostles, intelligent words of truth were spoken in love (Rom. 10:17; Eph. 4:15). Christians assembled to sing, pray, and study God’s Word. All things were “done unto edifying,” “decently and in order” (1 Cor. 14:26,40). Honest souls are seeking orderly and scriptural worship today.
2. Constant appeals for money. Early Christians were taught to give as they prospered each “first day of the week” for the work of the church (1 Cor. 16:1-2). They met on other days to study and pray at times but did not take up a collection on such occasions. The tithing of the Old Testament was not required in the New, but the rule was this, “Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give” (2 Cor. 9:7). A tithe means ten percent. Some gave more, some less, according to their ability, but all gave on the Lord’s day. There were no special “clubs” for big givers, no “purpose cards,” and no extra appeals by mail. These carnal devices along with sales and raffles drive many an humble soul out of false religions in search of the truth.
3. Lack of Bible preaching. The content of New Testament preaching was the inspired Word of God. Paul stayed at Corinth “a year and six months, teaching the word of God among them,” and then Apollos preached there with great power, “showing by the scriptures that Jesus was Christ” (Acts 18:11,28). Faithful preachers urged people to search “the scriptures daily, whether those things were so” (Acts 17:11). Most modern preaching is theatrical and entertaining, with little food for the soul. A brief text of Scripture may be used as a pretext to ramble in all directions, to offer social and political commentary, and to offer all sorts of human philosophies and human doctrines. Men and women starved for Bible preaching have left denominationalism.
4. Sprinkling and pouring. Many people who had water sprinkled or poured on them have learned that Bible baptism was immersion. Bible baptism required “much water” because the baptizer and the one to be baptized walked “down both into the water” for the purpose of immersion (Jn. 3:23; Acts 8:38). Baptism was a burial in water and a rising from water (Rom. 6:34; Col. 2:12). Many people have renounced denominationalism in order to be scripturally baptized.
5. Lord’s supper not served every Sunday. The Apostles of Christ taught his people to gather “upon the first day of the week” to commemorate his death by sharing the Lord’s Supper, and also to give financially for the work of his church (Acts 20:7; 1 Cor. 16:2). Most denominations take the collection every Sunday without fail but omit the Lord’s Supper except on a few special occasions. Anyone who sees blatant inconsistencies in churches started by men may begin searching for the church started by Christ.
6. Faith only. Denominationalism generally teaches that our sins are washed away the moment we believe in Jesus. Many people are surprised to read, “Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only . . . so faith without works is dead” (Jas. 2:24,26). We are not saved by faith only or by obedience only, but Jesus said, “He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved” (Mk. 16:16). “Baptism doth also now save us” (1 Pet. 3:21). Hundreds and thousands leave man-made religions in order to obey God’s plan of salvation in its fulness.
7. Human creeds, doctrines, catechisms, manuals, disciplines, and pretended new revelations. Denominationalism is plagued, cursed, and confused by numerous and conflicting standards of authority for their preaching and practice. The Bible, and the Bible only, is “the faith which was once delivered to the saints.” The Bible alone contains “all things that pertain unto life and godliness,” and thoroughly equips “the man of God . . . unto all good works” (Jude 3; 2 Pet. 1:3; 2 Tim. 3:16-17). The words of our Lord are truly spiritual and lead to eternal life, but the doctrines and commandments of men are carnal, divisive, empty, and destructive to the soul (Jn. 6:63; Matt. 15:8-9). No wonder so many honest hearts despair of finding salvation in human systems and begin to seek for the true teaching of Christ.
8. Denominational names. People who once were proud to wear denominational names – Roman Catholic, Greek Orthodox, Episcopal, Presbyterian, Baptist, Methodist, Holiness, Pentecostal, Mormon, Adventist, Jehovah’s Witness, etc. – are learning that Christ never taught his followers to wear such names. Rather, he taught them to wear his own name as their only mark of identity. “And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch” (Acts 11:26). They were not ashamed of this name and were strictly forbidden to wear names created by men (1 Pet. 4:14,16; 1 Cor. 1:10-13). Multitudes have repudiated man-made names in order to be Christians only, nothing more and nothing less.
9. Church social and recreational activities. Christ gave his church the work of spreading the gospel to the lost, edifying saints as they assemble to worship God, and meeting the needs of destitute saints (1 Thess. 1:8; Acts 2:42; 1 Tim. 5:16). From ancient times, false religions appealed to man’s carnal appetites by enticing people with meals, parties, sports, dancing, and all sorts of festivities (Exod. 32:6,18; 1 Cor. 10:7). The denominations of our day try to outdo each other in offering suppers, banquets, parties, celebrations, carnivals, contests, awards, prizes, sports activities, gymnasiums, and social services. After all the food, fun, and frolic, souls are still starving for the truth of the gospel of Christ. God blesses people who “hunger and thirst after righteousness” by delivering them from the spiritual famine which plagues denominationalism (Matt. 5:6; Col. 1:13).
10. Human organizations tied to the church. Denominationalism is staggering and sinking into a quagmire under the weight of human headquarters, societies, bureaus, conventions, boards, colleges, summer camps, publishing houses, child care agencies, retirement centers, convalescence homes, hospitals, and other human institutions tied to the church. God made the local church with its elders and deacons allsufficient to do its own work without building and maintaining man-made organizations (Phil. 1:1; 1 Tim. 3; Acts 20:28; 1 Pet. 5:1-5). Many precious souls have learned to serve Christ in his church without entangling alliances with sectarian institutions
The decay of denominationalism is helping more and more people to see that the church of Christ is not just another denomination. It is no denomination at all but is an alternative to denominationalism. It is the original church revealed in the Bible.
Michael,
Here is an answer from a trustworthy source to your question about denominations.
http://carm.org/what-about-different-denominations
And here is my answer:
I find that becaus humans are involved, every church and denomination and association (for those who want to claim they are not part of a denomination), has problems. They all look different, have different forms of church leadership, have differences in style or teaching/preaching/worship, allow different qualifications for leadership. Some are very lineral in that they may not even open a Bible and allow people to do what they want without saying what God’s word teaches. Others are extremely conservative in that they want ti have the Bible guide their daily decisions and teaching. And there’s folks in between the two extremes. Some things are differet because of a simple disagreement in how certain verses are to be interpreted. Other things are different because some folks just want to do what they want and find ways to use (or ignore) the Bible to suite their needs. Other churches or deniominations ir associations are an attempt to get it right from their perspective and some try to go back to what they imagine was how it was originally done before certain folks made things hard or wrong or what-have-you.
I have a few denominations I would suggest and a few to avoid.
All churches who claim to follow Christ would claim to be Christian. But just because someone sits in a field, wearing overalls and a hat and boots, that does not make them a farmer. The same is true for someone who calls themself a Christian or a church who claims to love God. Watch them, see if the walk matches the talk. Not all churches even within a solid denomination or association or even so-called nondenominational churches will be a good church.
The best thing I can tell you is find men and women who are meeting together to praise God and study the Bible. Then see where they attend and pray and see if the sermon fiollow scripture or ignore it. Find a place where God (Father,Son, Holy Spirit) is revered, the bible is taught as fact, people love the folks in the church and the folks out of the church in practical ways, and evangelism and discipleship are of equal importance.
Gene, I was reading over the comments and would like to know more about the study group. Thanks, Bryan
Sure do, Bryan… will be in contact.
Amazing testimony! Please take the time to visit this site- http://www.breakingthehush.webs.com. It is my brothers site-his story of his own personal struggle, and redemption. Thank you for sharing yours! Blessings!
Andrea, this is an amazing story! I have developed such great respect for Shawn and your family! His hanging on and letting God work this out in HIS timing will happen. Satan knows our weaknesses and tries to ruin our life and link to God. There is NO one who is without sin and I hope that Shawn continues to remember this and not be too hard on himself. “But we are not of those who shrink back and are destroyed, but of those who have faith and preserve their souls.” (Hebrews 10:39). Please pass along to Shawn that he is being remembered in prayer and thought about in positive ways. I’d appreciate that very much!
Sincerely,
Gene
sarelpetrus, wbmoore and Milton thank you for your kindness and encouragement. My brothers.
Yes! My brothers!!
Dear Michael,
I told your story in church this morning and there was great cheering! You and your firend have brought celebration to Namibia.
Be blessed, my brother!
Sarel, you’re from Africa? What is it like living there?
Hey Michael!
Good to hear from you. I’m on my way to a prayer meeting but will write tomorrow.
You are in my prayers!
Sarel
Hey Michael!
Well for me living in Africa is pretty normal since this is where I grew up. We don’t have lions roaming the streets! Namibia is a fairly prosperous country although we do have some poverty as in most of Africa (and the world to be honest). I currently live in a quiet, tiny little coastal town which for a lot of people would be dead boring. But I love it.
I have often wondered what I’ll do when faced with someone who has just come to Jesus Christ. This can be such a confusing time! This Christian is going to tell you this, that one that – who do you listen to? I know as I’ve recently gone through this experience being a fairly new convert myself. And there’s also lots of crazy deception out there! (Todd Bentley probably at the top!)
I hope you read the message I wrote to you earlier after you told us about Jay – I mentioned some things there that I found very useful in my early walk. Now if you don’t know – you’ll want to get baptized. Ask God to make that happen for you. It took me awhile to find somewhere I felt comfortable getting baptized so don’t panic. Perhaps someone at the bible study can point you somewhere?
I also want to tell you that you don’t have to ‘do’ anything to become ‘acceptable’ in God’s sight. The Bible teaches us:
Eph 1:6-7 to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He made us ACCEPTED IN THE BELOVED. (7) In Him we have redemption THROUGH HIS BLOOD, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace
So, by the sacrificial death of Jesus Christ for you on the cross, and by His blood which He shed for you, you are made acceptable to God. It is a gift that you get for free when you accept Jesus Christ as your saviour. It is called Justification. You just have to thank God and accept this gift in faith. It is yours, take it. You don’t have to earn it – in fact, that’s precisely the point: you can’t. It is a gift of grace.
Now from the moment you are saved, you are a new creation. You are sealed with the Holy Spirit into the body of Christ. You don’t feel it, see it, smell it – but it is so. God has placed you ‘in Jesus Christ’ and therefore you are new. It is a spiritual status. For now, simply accept this – understanding will come. Pray for revelation.
1Co 1:30 But of Him you are in Christ Jesus, who became for us wisdom from God—and righteousness and sanctification and redemption—
Now the next part – and something that is going to continue for the rest of your life – is Sanctification. This also has nothing to do with being ‘acceptable’ to God. It is the process where the Holy Spirit starts working in you – each of us have different needs, problems, circumstances so the path you are going to take will be uniquely tailored to you. In this process the Holy Spirit will start forming your character which will lead you to start bearing spiritual fruit. Which briefly are:
Gal 5:22-23 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, (23) gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law.
(I’m only now getting to joy and peace but that’s because I panic too much. If it takes you time to get there – don’t worry: you’ll get there!) This is a process and takes time. What we experience in this world is only preparation for the afterlife, eternity with God. Some of it will be tough but be assured, God is with you always. Don’t be afraid to say, “Help!” And this is something you really must remember: God will not desert you if you stumble. The Holy Spirit is going to start pointing things out to you that have to change (it’s called ‘convicting’). You’ll know what they are because you’ll feel badly if you do them! Your conscience will have a chat with you. These are battles you are going to have to fight – but never on your own. You will also not always experience immediate victory. Some fights will take longer than others. Don’t panic. You’ll get there.
God understands. He will help you. Even if you stumble many times, you have to pick yourself up, tell God that you’re sorry and keep going. God will NEVER reject you as long as you keep trying. In fact, this is something I learned eventually: only once I realized that God is going to keep on loving me, DESPITE the mistakes I keep making, did things start changing for the better. I couldn’t figure it out. How could God love me so much? How could He keep on forgiving me over and over? He says that every time I ask Him to forgive me, He will forgive, but surely, at some point He is going to get fed up with me?
1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
But that is the weird thing – He forgives every time. He kept loving me. I was so terrified at times that surely this time He was going to abandon me! But luckily I just got back up, asked forgiveness and continued walking with God. Taking one day at a time. And as soon as I realized that God wasn’t going to reject me, even though I stumbled sometimes, things started changing for the better. I started conquering my sins because I wanted to please God, make Him happy – and not because I was afraid that my sins would make me ‘unacceptable’ to Him. Of course, this could never be taken as license to just keep sinning! We can never ‘accept’ the sin. But just know: God is very, very patient. All the spiritual fruit I mentioned earlier – God has all of them in VERY large quantities. He is longsuffering. He’ll stick with you. You’ll have victory in all your battles eventually. Just never give up.
Pro 3:5-6 Trust in the LORD with all your heart,
And lean not on your own understanding;
(6) In all your ways acknowledge Him,
(7) And He shall direct your paths.
Speak to God the whole day. Ask His opinion constantly. For me I’m pretty much in a constant conversation with God. He will always answer. When, where, how – you can’t tell. But He will. Make this a habit. Talk to him. Day and night. Be honest. He knows what you’re thinking anyway so might as well be honest. He will NEVER reject you for being honest. Even if you think He’ll freak out if you admit something to Him. He won’t. He is un-freak-outable. And that is because He already knows everything.
Now when you get new ‘teachings’ this I find is a good way to go about them:
Everything you learn or hear goes into a ‘waiting room’ in your mind. You don’t just accept everything people tell you or what you read (other than in the Bible). You keep it there and wait for the Holy Spirit to guide you. He will do this by you reading your Bible. Sometimes He will find a way to take you somewhere in the Bible or someone will give you Scripture that will confirm or refute something in your ‘waiting room’. Only once you feel satisfied that the Holy Spirit has ‘okay’ed something do you let it ‘inside’. If you see something that makes you feel uncomfortable or hear or read something that makes you uncomfortable – just pull back a bit and observe. Don’t worry. If you are attentive to the Holy Spirit He will reveal the reason why you are uncomfortable in due time. But don’t ignore the feeling. The Holy Spirit will often warn you this way if something is ‘off’.
But always: TRUST. If you temporarily go in a wrong direction, God will find a way to pull you back. But if you don’t read your Bible every day this gets very difficult for God. You’ll be tempted to read a lot of other books written by other people and there is nothing wrong with this – but this can NEVER replace the Bible. First hand from God’s Word under the guidance of the Holy Spirit is always best. Don’t worry if you don’t understand everything immediately. The Bible is layered. As you read it things will be ‘opened’ to you. I’m always in the process of re-reading the New Testament. Every time I go through it new things are opened to me. Every time. Never a dull moment – even though you might think it will become so.
Now I need to run along.
Always feel free to come with any questions and I’ll do my best to help! Or contact Matt – you can trust him.
All the best and my peace, joy and love be yours in spades!
Sarel
Salrelpetrus,
That’s probably some of the BEST advice I have read for a new Christiann, given that there may or may not be additional followup.
Thank you God!
Dear wbmoore,
Thanks for that – I appreciate your comment. I am also really glad that you place the honour and thanks where it is due – our Holy Father!
The Holy Spirit is such a great teacher – he certainly does not teach as men teach. When He has taught you something you know it in the depths of your heart. It’s not hearsay but living truth for you have lived it. The Word of God becomes life to us – and that abundantly. And so by the effective working of His power in us we are prepared for the equipping of the saints, the edification of the body and every good work that our Father has prepared for us before the beginning of time.
Praise indeed to His most Holy Name! And thanks be to our Lord Jesus Christ Who made it all possible! Forever and ever, Amen.
Be blessed,
Sarel
Sarel, thank you SO MUCH for this advice. I had Jay read this as well. It’s a help! I have a question – can a person be baptized twice? Jay was baptized as a baby, should he have it done again?
No lions in the street? TV makes Africa seem more exciting I guess. LOL!!
Hey Michael!
I was also baptized as a baby but when I gave my life to Christ I got baptized again. This was important for me because it was a dividing line between my old life and the new in Jesus Christ. When I came up from the water the old had been washed off. You will get different opinions on whether he needs to get baptized again. I would if I was him – it is a declaration of his faith in Jesus Christ even if it is unnecessary. Whether it is necessary or not is a tricky bit of theological flooring – so I say: better safe than sorry! God is not a tyrant – He will respect Jay’s wish to publicly declare his faith.
What I love about Namibia is the space. It is a very sparsely populated country so there are huge tracts with just nature. Granted, the whole west coast is a desert but that has a beauty all its own. The north is subtropical in climate so its pretty nice up there – we have a big game reserve there with lots of wild animals – so it’s not old boring! Some of my family work there so I get to go visit them and listen to the elephants fart (no jokes!) whilst drinking coffee by to the watering holes. But I prefer the wild animals off the street – they might be feeling peckish. Namibia is sort of between third world and first world in conditions. You get your SLK Mercedes sharing the road with carts pulled by donkeys. I like the combination.
Anyhoo – hope you and Jay are doing well! Just ask if there’s anything else – I’ll do my best to help. Just remember: God isn’t sitting there ready to zap you with lightning the first time you put a foot wrong. You are His now and He WANTS to get you where you need to be – you just hang onto Him and trust in Him to get you there.
Peace and love in Jesus Christ, my brothers,
Sarel
Here is hoping that some of you will watch this interview tonight.
http://www.advocate.com/arts-entertainment/television/2012/08/21/breaking-news-exodus-leaders-shocking-revelation-tonight
Dear James,
So when Alan Chambers completely derails we should all dutifully follow him off the cliff? Not me. I actually thought about you earlier this evening. I’m not going to go into details but things have happened between God and me these past few days – I can not even explain it. It is utterly amazing. I don’t quite get why He is so good to me but there you are. My FB update a short while ago was this:
Anyway. I think I might explode. The thought is too big. In the meantime there’s nothing for it but to grin like a maniac. I am that happy.
The reason why I thought of you was because I wished I could transplant what I’m going through to you – that you may for a second experience what I’m experiencing. Then you would understand. What Alan Chambers says is of absolutely no consequence to me. What I’ve just discovered in Jesus Christ has left me so awestruck words fail me. No jokes. I have no idea how to convey this incredible revelation to you or anyone else who haven’t been through it themselves. And yet it is available to anyone who seeks out God to the exclusion of all else. I don’t know whether I should dance or start crying. It’s all a bit weird right now.
Anyway dude – I truly, truly pray that you seek out God’s face. I really mean it. Then you will understand that which words can not utter. Say the words – God is waiting.
Peace be with you.
Sarel
Sarel,
I don’t particularly like being a “Debby Downer”, but your posts have me nervous for your mental health. You see, my partner grew up in the Pentecostal church. He had several “revelations”. One was particularly “enlightening”. He jumped up to the pulpit and took over from the pastor. He went into a fit of tongues speaking…. Shouting …. Singing… dancing…. Etc. At the time, he thought he was having a spiritual breakthrough. Now, he can look back on that experience and realize that he was having a nervous background. His congregation went right along with it… thinking they were having a revelation from God when in reality they were witnessing a young man having an emotional breakdown. Pretending to be someone that you are not can do that to someone.
James
But could not have God used that nervous breakdown to glorify His Holy Name?
I’d like to pass along some “food for thought” into this subject concerning spiritual gifts, if I may. 1. Some misunderstand the nature of spiritual gifts. The nature of the gifts involved the supernatural and not the natural. Things that are done through natural ability cannot be called “spiritual gifts.” One could learn to speak a foreign language through natural ability by thoroughly studying the language. But, the gift of “divers kinds of tongues” involved speaking in a language that one did not know and had not studied (Acts 2:5-13).
2. Some misunderstand who received spiritual gifts. Men today do not receive these supernatural abilities and do not need them as the early church did. Early Christians needed spiritual gifts for the confirmation of God’s spoken word and the edification of the church. But when the spoken word was confirmed by super-natural acts and became the written or “perfect” word of God, that which was in part (spiritual gifts) was taken away (1 Cor. 13:10). Spiritual gifts were not general, but special. 3. Some misunderstand how spiritual gifts were given. Some received miraculous power from the Spirit through a baptism, called “the baptismal measure of the Holy Spirit.” Jesus promised the apostles (and only the apostles), “For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence” (Acts 1:5; Acts 11:16). The apostles were overwhelmed by the Spirit in Acts 2 when “they were all filled with the Holy Spirit, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.” The miraculous powers given to the apostles were the “signs of an apostle” mentioned by Paul in 2 Corinthians 12:12, “Truly the signs of an apostle were wrought among you in all patience, in signs, and wonders, and mighty deeds.” Others received supernatural power through the laying on of an apostle’s hands, called “the laying on of hands measure of the Holy Spirit.” There was a vital connection between the laying on of the apostles’ hands, and the transfer of the power of the Holy Spirit. The story of Simon the Sorcerer reads, “And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles’ hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money” (Acts 8:18). All such supernatural power was given by the Holy Spirit! In Acts 10:44 while Peter was speaking the word of the Lord, the “Holy Spirit fell on all them that heard the word.” What was “poured out” of the Spirit was called “the gift of the Holy Spirit” (Acts 10:45) and “they heard them speak with tongues …” (Acts 10:46). This outpouring of the Holy Spirit resulted in its recipients possessing a supernatural gift.
This outpouring in Acts 10 was for the purpose of convincing the Jews that to the Gentiles also was “granted repentance unto life” (Acts 11:18). The nine spiritual gifts of 1 Corinthians 12:8-10, from the word of wisdom to the interpretation of tongues, were imparted by the apostles of Christ after their baptism by the Holy Spirit. Paul laid his hands on some newborn Christians at Ephesus who then began to speak in tongues and prophecy (Acts 19:1-6). 4. Some misunderstand the differences in spiritual gifts. Spiritual gifts were diverse in that they differed one from another. Paul taught the Corinthians, “Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit” (1 Cor. 12:4) and “there are diversities of operations” (v.6). The gifts differed in the work they enabled each one to perform. The nine spiritual gifts of 1 Corinthians 12:8-10 word of wisdom, word of knowledge, faith, gifts of healing, working of miracles, prophecy, discerning of spirits, kinds of tongues and the interpretation of tongues differed one from another. Even the seeming inseparable gifts of word of wisdom and word of knowledge were different in that the “word of wisdom was the ability to reveal divine truth, and the word of knowledge was the ability to teach the truth thus revealed” (J.W. McGarvey). For this reason Paul asked and persuaded the Corinthians, “Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Are all workers of miracles? Have all the gifts of healing? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret? But covet earnestly the best gifts” (1 Cor. 12:29-31). But as different gifts were bestowed on different individuals, some of them became a source of pride and envy among the saints at Corinth. 5. Some misunderstand the purpose of spiritual gifts. The intended purpose of spiritual gifts is clearly set forth in scripture. Mark records, “And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following” (Mark 16:20). Hence, gifts of a spiritual nature were given by the Spirit of God to early disciples to confirm (“to make firm, establish, make secure,” W.E. Vine) the spoken word of God. God, through the Holy Spirit, provided man with both a complete revelation and the external signs (miracles) which made it credible. If God’s messengers did not have their message confirmed by super-natural evidence of its Divine origin none could be persuaded that God was its author. Further, the apostle asked, “How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him; God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will?” (Heb. 2:3-4). The Lord’s spoken word of salvation was made sure by the apostles through miraculous manifestations. On one occasion, the supernatural was so obvious and convincing, that those who observed the wonders considered Paul and Barnabas as gods (Acts 14:11). Paul argues that such became a “badge of authority” for the apostles of Christ and attested to the fact that they were truly God’s messengers (1 Cor. 12:12). Further, as the spoken word was confirmed by spiritual gifts it would result in the edification or building up of the church. Paul taught the Corinthians, “But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal” (1 Cor. 12:7) and “Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church” (1 Cor. 14:12) and “How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying” (1 Cor. 14:26). 6. Some misunderstand the duration of spiritual gifts. The apostle revealed that while faith, hope, and love would abide, spiritual gifts would fail, cease, and vanish away (1 Cor. 13:8). Spiritual gifts were “needful in developing the infant church, but as that institution passed onward toward maturity and perfection (Heb. 5:12-14; 6:1; Eph. 3:14-21; 4:11-16), they were outgrown and discontinued, because from them had been developed the clear, steady light of the recorded Word, and the mature thoughtfulness and assurance of a well-instructed church” (J.W. McGarvey). Since the apostles were the link between the Holy Spirit and the church in the dispensing of the gifts, the apostles’ death marked the breaking of the link, and signaled the end of the miraculous gifts. In 1 Corinthians 13:8-13, Paul identifies the gifts, and then points out that “when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.” The word “perfect” is in contrast to the “know in part” and refers to the totality of the knowledge God intended to impart to man. As this revelation was being given, part by part, it was being confirmed by accompanying miracles. The testimony of the apostles and others was proven valid by their miracles. These demonstrations confirmed the word then, and the same demonstrations confirm the word now! Being provisional, to bear witness to the truth orally delivered, and temporary, spiritual gifts were not permanent, and therefore ceased.
Since the word of God is now in the book, we do not need the special endowments of the Spirit. There are two reasons why the gifts of the Spirit are not now imparted. First, there are no apostles now to impart gifts and, second, there is no further need for miraculous revelations. 7. Some misunderstand the difference between spiritual gifts and the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Holy Spirit baptism upon the apostles of Christ was for the full and complete inspiration necessary to reveal the scheme of redemption to man. Jesus promised the apostles the Comforter who would guide them into all truth and bring to their remembrance what Jesus had spoken unto them (John 14:26; 16:7, 13). “The Holy Spirit in special measure was not promised and not received by anyone else than the apostles themselves” (F. Wallace, Jr.). The apostles of Christ, through the baptism of the Holy Spirit, were, as it was, commissioned to pass on the miraculous gifts of the Spirit so that others could speak with divine authority and perform confirming gifts (Mark 16:17-20). “Indications are that the majority of men who could perform supernatural feats were not possessed of the various gifts of the Spirit (1 Cor. 12:28-31) and more than likely, possessed only one or two of them. Yet it seems to be a fair conclusion to draw that the apostles were able to do all of them! “It was certainly through them (the laying on of their hands) that these gifts were imparted to other men (Acts 8:18), and the conclusion seems inescapable that if they had all the gifts to the extent that they could impart them to others, they must have been able to exercise them” (A. Belue Jr.). “The baptism of the Holy Spirit is not a measure given to men. It belonged to the Holy Spirit alone, through the apostles of Christ, to reveal the scheme of redemption, and to demonstrate its divine origin. Therein its special mission was fulfilled and its manifestations ended … Thus the influence of the Holy Spirit in the apostles was the baptismal measure; and the influence of the Holy Spirit in the apostolic church was the spiritual gifts measure … Holy Spirit baptism was from God, not from men; it was received direct from heaven not by impartation of hands” (F. Wallace, Jr.). 8. Some misunderstand the difference between spiritual gifts in the Bible and supposed spiritual gifts today. The signs that were to accompany those who have believed, included: casting out demons, speaking with new tongues, picking up serpents, drinking any deadly poison without being hurt, and laying hands on the sick so they would recover (Mark 16:17-20). With the claim must be the power to prove the claim. Where’s the proof? Further, modern preachers who claim such power don’t talk like the Spirit-filled apostles talked. The apostles commanded believers to repent and be baptized for the remission of their sins (Acts 2:38). Do these modern-day claimers of such power tell sinners to do such? 9. Some misunderstand the difference between spiritual gifts and the gift of the Holy Spirit. There is a difference between the gift of the Holy Spirit and spiritual gifts. Peter promised in Acts 2:38 that those who repented and were baptized would receive the “gift of the Holy Ghost.” As we’ve already learned not all the early Christians received spiritual gifts (1 Cor. 12:8). Whatever the “gift” of the Holy Spirit is, was received by all those who repented and were baptized and the “promise” extended even to their children (v. 39). While some contend that the gift of the Spirit was salvation and others the Spirit himself, one thing is for sure, the promise of the gift of the Spirit, in Acts 2:38, is not a promise that men would receive spiritual gifts!
**Conclusion**
Spiritual gifts can be likened to scaffolding used in the erection of a building; when the building is completed the scaffolding is removed. Or you might compare spiritual gifts to a tugboat; when the mighty ship of the church was pulled away from the harbor, the tugboats (spiritual gifts) were cut loose and the mighty ship of the church was able to sail on its own. “Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant” (1 Cor. 12:1).
Dearly beloved Gene:
GEE WILIKERS!!! Posting a 2,061 worded ‘comment’ about like whatEVER!
Now was that really necessary to do mi amigo?
Shut my mouth and slap my grandma!!! By the time I reached the end of it I forgot what the start of it was about.
Spare me the edumacation! Paleeze!
Did you also read those words that you counted?? This is a VERY misunderstood subject, Mike, and those who are truly interested and honestly seeking truth will take the time to read and evaluate. I don’t recall a word limit to a “comment” on here either, so if I’ve gone over some quota… I humbly apologize!
Dear Gene,
My Bible taught me to believe in a supernatural God – Who does supernatural things. This fits with my experience. You say that ‘when that which is perfect has come’ then the spiritual gifts will be done away with. I have heard this argument before. But it is my experience that people who do argue this only tells half the story:
1Co 13:12 For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know just as I also am known.
So is the ‘perfect’ really the completed canon? I highly doubt it. It is clearly when we stand ‘face to face’ with Jesus Christ. As in:
2Co 3:18 But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as by the Spirit of the Lord.
So now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then – face to face. Then the gifts would no longer be necessary – we are with our Lord and Saviour. People are still people. We STILL need edification. I mean, why on earth wouldn’t we?
There is, of course, danger here also because of ‘lying signs and wonders’. That is why there is need for discernment. And in this I share your really careful attitude. When the object starts being gifts (signs and wonders) and not fruit then there is great room for deception. And to be honest with you, the ‘modern’ tongue speaking makes me a bit nervous. But I have it on good authority that I can leave that in God’s capable hands.
So please don’t close yourself off from having God deal with you supernaturally. It will truly enrich your life and enhance your faith and walk with God. And you will see by the fruit that it is from God.
Be blessed,
Sarel
Or more precisely: look to Jesus Christ, abide in Him, and the fruit and everything else will take care of itself!
Sarelpetrus, thanks for the reply!
I wasn’t trying to infer that God isn’t a supernatural being, but only that this supernatural portion of God was gifted to very specific humans for only a short time and for a specific purpose. The passages I have referred to are clear about this. It’s both unscriptural as well as dangerous to believe otherwise because it opens up so many directions that men can “claim” came from direct contact with God which will, in actuality, promote the potential to lead themselves and others astray. To quote from your last message: “You say that ‘when that which is perfect has come’ then the spiritual gifts will be done away with.” Sarel, please note that these aren’t “my” words, but those of God. Please check out 1Corinthians 13:10, specifically, if you’d like to check me on this. You say that you’ve heard this argument before, but your “experience” tells you other things. Once, again, this is dangerous, Sarelpetrus. When we go beyond what God has said into the realm which treads out of the area which God has left plainly mapped, we are in danger of going off course. You’ve quoted from 1Corinthians 13:12 so, let’s take a look at within that chapter and those surrounding it to see what it is actually saying to us… 1 Corinthians chapters 12-14 are sections of Scripture dealing with “spiritual gifts.” It is introduced with the expression, “now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant” (verse one). The whole of this chapter is devoted to the enumeration of these gifts, three of which are mentioned in verses eight through ten of chapter thirteen. In addition to showing the more perfect way of love, chapter thirteen shows the duration of the spiritual gifts. They were to be operative until that which is “perfect” is come. Chapter fourteen concerns itself with a discussion of the regulation of these gifts. Observe therefore that the context clearly reveals that the spiritual gifts were given “in part” and that it was these items that were to be done away with (1 Cor. 13:9-10). When Paul says, “we know in part, and we prophesy in part,” he had reference to the revelation of God’s will that was then being made known through “prophecies,” “tongues,” and “knowledge” (1 Cor. 13:8). This is more evident by the statement: “Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine?” (1 Cor. 14:6). The spiritual gifts, miraculous in their nature, was God’s way of communicating His will to the early church. The early church did not have the will of God in written form as we have it, so God gave the church provisional gifts until written law was provided. Then the provisional, spiritual’ gifts were superseded, by the perfectly revealed will (Jas. 1:25; 2 Pet. 1:3). This becomes evident when one observes the contrasts of 1 Cor. 13:
(1) Contrast between spiritual gifts and love.
(2) Between that which fails and that which shall not cease.
(3) Between the part and the whole, the incomplete and the complete.
(4) Childhood state and the state of maturity.
(5) Knowledge in part and full knowledge.
(6) Between seeing things darkly and seeing them face to face.
As has been shown, the purpose of spiritual gifts was to complete Divine revelation. These gifts guided the ship of Zion during the revelation period when God’s will was being placed in written form. When the church reached the “stature of the fulness of Christ” (Eph. 4:13), the temporary gifts were done away.
Gene,
I have to disagree that the sign gifts have ceased. It all relates to the meaning of ‘perfect’ in 1 Corinthians 13:10. I wrote about it here: http://wbmoore.wordpress.com/2009/02/27/what-does-perfect-mean-in-1-corinthians-1310/
…will be happy to take a look.
Respectfully to wbmoore:
Your view of this is that spiritual gifts (miraculous gifts) will continue until either Christ comes again, or we are in heaven. The basis for so arguing is the use of the words “perfect” (1 Cor. 13:10a – both Christ and heaven could be described as perfect), and also the use of “face to face” (1 Cor. 13:12 – in heaven we will see Christ face to face).
Miraculous gifts of the Spirit were given by the laying on of the hands of the apostles (Acts 8:17-18; 19:6; Rom. 1:8-11). When the last apostle (evidently John) died, the age of passing on miraculous gifts ceased; when the last man on whom an apostle had bestowed such a gift died, the age of miraculous gifts was totally gone. When the last of these men died, that which was in part was gone, and, of necessity “that which is perfect” had come . . . and it wasn’t the second coming of Christ, nor was it heaven.
“What Is ‘That Which Is Perfect’?”
Already we know what is not. Neither the second coming of Christ nor heaven appeared with the cessation of the miraculous gifts of the Spirit. Niether of these meets the divine requirement.
The purpose of miracles was to confirm the spoken word; miracles produced faith (Acts 9:42; 1 Cor. 14:22) in those who beheld or heard of the miracle. Today we have the written word of God, a record of the miracles (Jn. 20:30-31; 2 Tim. 3:16-17) to produce faith. When we see the what (the written word of God, the New Testament) and the why (it begets faith unto salvation) we can readily understand James speaking of the “perfect law, the law of liberty” (Jas. 1:25). James is speaking of the very same thing as was Paul (1 Cor. 13:10); both are perfect. Does the New Testament meet the divine time qualification? The “perfect” was to come at the cessation of “the part.” The New Testament was fully written by the time of the death of the last apostle, or by the time of the death of the last man who received the laying on of apostolic hands.
There are two “now . . . then” comparisons in 1 Corinthians 13:12. It is not a comparison of physical, earthly life (“now”) versus spiritual, heavenly life (“then”). It is “now” (the condition in Corinth, with the miraculous spiritual gifts, that which was “in part”) compared with I ‘then” (the time when “that which is perfect is come,” the condition possible when men would have “the perfect law, the law of liberty” – Jas. 1:25). In actuality, it is a comparison between Paul’s now and our now,- we have, beloved, the perfect law of liberty. God has given us, the recipients of the “perfect law,” complete instructions (2 Pet. 1:24) on how to live before him. Therefore, I respectfully disagree with your dissertation.
Gene, I chose to respond to you in the comment section of my own blog, because I dont want to hijack this blog entry.
http://wbmoore.wordpress.com/2009/02/27/what-does-perfect-mean-in-1-corinthians-1310/#comment-21021
James! Fear not! A straight-jacket will not be required.
(Sweet of you to be concerned though!)
The revelation I had is simple – and yet profound. No bouts of tongue speaking or taking over the pulpit are in sight. My revelation is not special in the sense that it is unique – this is a revelation each and every Christian needs to have in order to claim victory over the flesh. And this is how it happens: you start believing that your flesh is dead. You start to really BELIEVE God. God says in His Word that your flesh was crucified in Jesus Christ and it is therefore dead.
2Co 5:14 For the love of Christ compels us, because we judge thus: that if One died for all, then all died;
But we have a hard time believing it. And that is because the flesh appears so very much alive to us. But that’s just it: it’s not the flesh that we’re seeing – it’s the old sin principle! God never once said He was going to remove that. God’s solution to the problem of delivering us from sin is NOT to remove the ‘sin principle’ – it is to remove the sinner!
I have come to understand more and more what it means to be ‘in Jesus Christ’ in the past couple of weeks. Because I am in Jesus Christ (God placed me there so it’s not a matter of getting ‘in there’ on my own steam) I really and truly shared in His crucifixion and death. I AM DEAD! I know you’re probably thinking, whoop whoop, he’s barking, someone hide the moon – but, honest, I’m not. I merely had to start believing the FACTS! And as soon as I started really believing that my flesh was dead – the ‘sin principle’ lost it’s power over me! The dead can’t dance. Even to the most catchy tune.
And similarly, as I died in Jesus – I now LIVE in Him. It is utterly astonishing. Not tomorrow, not next week, not in the afterlife – now. And it is a life of VICTORY!
Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life IN CHRIST JESUS has made me free from the law of sin and death.
I finally understand. I’m FREE! Now I don’t expect you to understand – I think many Christians don’t understand. I only finally ‘got’ it oh so recently. We read the words but we don’t get it – we don’t BELIEVE. But praise God! He is willing to reveal this truth in all our hearts.
Heb 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must BELIEVE that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who DILIGENTLY SEEK HIM.
If you persevere (even when it looks like the battle is going South) and diligently seek God – He WILL come through for you. But it is not merely this revelation that’s got me so excited (even though, surely, it would’ve been enough!) – the grace of God has abounded towards me this past week.
You see – since I’ve decided to really start believing God the most amazing things have started happening. I’m not going to go into everything because some will say I’m lying and others will say I’m boasting. Now I don’t lie because I stand before God. And I don’t boast because there is nothing to boast about – it is by grace that I stand. Let my boast be in Jesus Christ alone!
God has a way of talking to those who love Him that proves it is Him talking to you: He declares the end from the beginning. That is because He transcends time and knows EVERYTHING. And He has shown me that He is in total control. For me it is no longer a matter of hearsay – I’ve SEEN it. And that answers your question regarding my sanity. I don’t care how crazy a person is – only God can tell you today what’s going to happen tomorrow. And never be wrong. And if He does this every day for a week it gets kinda hard not to really, really BELIEVE.
And what I’ve just said is written in God’s Word.
Heb 11:1 Now faith is the substance (substantiating) of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
You see, I started getting up in the morning EXPECTING that God was going to do great things that day. There was faith behind my hope – and then the supernatural, that which is not seen yet eternal, started manifesting in my life.
Paul’s prayer for the church of Ephesians:
Eph 1:17-19 that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give to you the spirit of wisdom and REVELATION IN THE KNOWLEDGE OF HIM, (18) the eyes of your understanding (heart) being enlightened;
Why?
1) that you may know what is the hope of His calling,
2) what are the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the saints,
3) (19) and what is the exceeding greatness of His power toward us who BELIEVE, according to the working of His mighty power
God does not expect us to base our faith on thin air. He reveals Himself to us. And He does it in a way that proves it’s Him doing the revealing – because He does things only HE can do. And it is then that you suddenly find yourself in a place where you don’t know whether to dance or cry: because you’re so HAPPY!
Isa 46:9-10 Remember the former things of old, For I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like Me, (10) Declaring the end from the beginning, And from ancient times things that are not yet done, Saying, ‘My counsel shall stand, And I will do all My pleasure,’
God is the great I AM and there is no other like Him. End of.
I recently gave my body to Jesus Christ. I read about this as one of the means of conquering sin – especially sexual sin. It has transformed my life. In the time since giving my physical body to Jesus Christ I have realized that, in secret, I have kept it from Him. Sure, I’ve given my life to Him – but secretly I held a little part back. Since then all kinds of wonderful things have started happening – I have experienced a victory over sin and a closeness with God I’ve never felt before. Then a couple of days ago Watchman Nee’s book ‘Normal Christian Life’ came into my life (a friend pointed me to it) – and I’ve been reading it with amazement ever since. Last night I read:
“How good it is to have the consciousness that we belong to the Lord and are not our own! There is nothing more precious in the world. It is that which brings the awareness of His continual presence, and the reason is obvious. I must first have the sense of God’s possession of me before I can have the sense of His presence with me. When once His ownership is established, then I dare do nothing in my own interests, for I am His exclusive property.”
I wanted to run out into the streets and go tell someone, “It’s TRUE!!” And that is true holiness: to be completely separated unto God. Holiness isn’t about being perfect – it’s about being God’s property in every way. Nothing of the old and nothing for the old can remain. It goes on to say:
“When the Galilean boy brought his bread to the Lord, what did the Lord do with it? He broke it. God will always break what is offered to Him. He breaks what He takes, but after breaking it He blesses and uses it to meet the needs of others. After you give yourself to the Lord, He begins to break what was offered to Him. Everything seems to go wrong, and you protest and find fault with the ways of God. But to stay there is to be no more than just a broken vessel—no good for the world because you have gone too far for the world to use you, and no good for God either because you have not gone far enough for Him to use you. You are out of gear with the world, and you have a controversy with God. This is the tragedy of many a Christian.”
We can hold nothing back. We HAVE to give everything! And once you do! It was so scary because I thought that I’d fail. I thought I’d give my body and then not be able to honour the agreement. I did not realize: once I signed on the dotted line, the deal was done. Ownership was transferred on a level I could not physically perceive. And victory followed because it was no longer mine to achieve – I no longer belonged to myself. I’ve known the following verse for so long and only now really understand it:
Rom 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, which is your reasonable service.
I can not recommend this book highly enough – it is available for free online. Read it – and be free!
http://www.ccel.org/ccel/nee/normal
Amen! That’s exactly what I was thinking! My husband also battles with pornography, and if I may, I’d suggest reading Every Man’s Battle. It has helped my husband a great deal in his battle, by giving him a biblical game plan or strategy. It is written by heterosexual men, but as she ^^ said, lust is a sin that knows no labels!
I’ll be praying for you! Keep fighting the good fight, Matt. 
So thankful I found your blog! 
Thanks for the warning. I am new at all this.
Reblogged this on Matt Moore and commented:
I wrote this blog 8 months ago…I just went back and read it for the first time since then. If there’s one thing I’ve written these last 3 years that I think God truly inspired me to write, it’s this. Replace “homosexuality” with whatever your burden is…the concept applies to all of us in Christ.
Wow I tottally understand those feelings that u just shared. I realised that when ever we fall into sin. Sin creates an anti-agent for us to over come it. We need more strenght and power to get back to the spiritual level we had.
One thing I learned from this blog is the importance of mind renewal.
Thank you
For those who struggle with one sin or another, this also applies. Insert the name of what you struggle with. _________ is not me. Thank you for your transparency. And don’t give up. “The steps of a good man are ordered by the Lord and He delights in his way. Though he fall, he shall not be utterly cast down, for the Lord upholds him with his hand.” Psalm 37:23, 24
Matt~
I appreciate your words of encouragement and I can tell you that I have been right there with you. I am not sure if you read any of these posts, but my hope is that you do. At any rate, I have to tell you that the more I get to read your posts, the more I see how you and I are truly brothers at arms. I too, was called out of homosexuality at a gay bar (while on the dance floor no less!) and have fallen as you did. But I have to tell you, that out of your bad experience I became familiar with your name as I am sure many more did. After hearing your story, I do not feel so alone anymore. I have great brothers around me who are daily a part of my healing, but to hear your thoughts and know that we are in this together brings light to my soul. Why? Because I know that Jesus is real, that God is good, and that the enemy works the same old tricks. I look at your life and see the parallels in mine and I am even MORE convinced that God is great and that Jesus is saving us to be counter-cultural revolutionaries. 2 Tim 2: 4 says “No soldier in active service entangles himself in the affairs of everyday life, so that he may please the one who enlisted him as a soldier.” This is who we are Matt. We are men. Show me a man that can overcome this burden and I will show you God’s face! There is NO WAY anyone could do this on their own, but as I hear your story and reflect on mine I see God’s goodness in not only reconciling us to himself through Jesus, but also in calling us His sons, His soldiers, and His men. We are no longer boys, nor gays, nor ex-gays . . . we are men and once we soak in the reality of our true identity we can begin to fight as the soldiers we are.
Blessings my brother and I pray you become aware of the Father’s radiant pleasure he has over you.
Larry G
GREAT post. It’s all about identity. All of us as Christians, fall.. and it’s so much harder to forgive yourself than to be forgiven. And let’s not forget, once you have been delivered, or are on your way, you are one HUGE threat to the Enemy and WILL be attacked. Also; the best way to be healed, is to help and serve others. Maybe it would be good for you to involve yourself in something completely different, such as helping orphans, or abused animals, you know. some cause that is about something else. We’re here to serve, we heal when we serve and it helps to get out of oneself..
God bless you. You are such a testimony to the truth.
Matt,
I always enjoy reading your posts. You know my story and this blog really encourages me, as I have fallen (in conversation form) over the last week or two and have felt ashamed, not only for what I did, but also ashamed thinking that God didn’t love me. I am getting back on track, and trying my best to make these feelings of same sex attractions NOT be the focal point, but what Jesus is doing in me and seeing things from His perspective. Thanks for continuing to post!