If I’m to be honest, many times it bothers me that so much of the world thinks that what I believe is absurd. The depravity and sinful nature of humanity, the holiness and justice of God, the substitutionary death and justifying resurrection of Jesus Christ, and the command for us to repent from sin and follow Jesus Christ are the truths that have changed the course of my life….. and they are also truths that most people find to be lunacy—or more precisely, foolishness. This bothers me. And honestly, at times it has made me doubt what I believe. I know it’s not very “strong” of me to say that, but it’s true. And I think it’s true for many other Christians.
- “You’re trying to tell me that at my very core, I’m messed up? So messed up I can’t fix myself? Yeah.. ok.”
- “You say that God has allowed me to be so sinful? Yeah right. God doesn’t make mistakes.”
- “So God has to kill His Son to forgive me? That doesn’t sound very loving.”
- “Jesus wants me to stop dating people of the same sex? I just think Jesus was more about love….. so if I’m just trying to love, I’m not hurting anybody. So it can’t be sin.”
I don’t know about all of you, but I hear statements like this a whole lot more than I ever hear about someone responding to the [true and entire] gospel in faith and repentance. In my mind, the gospel makes so much sense…. it makes sense of the realities around me and the realities inside of me. Apart from the Bible, the world would make no sense to me. The presence of good and evil, right and wrong, life and death—the Bible is the only thing that logically explains all those things. And the main character of the Bible, Jesus Christ, is the only thing that offers any hope in escaping the permanence of the most dire of this world’s problems—death. Salvation from eternal damnation and receiving the gift of eternal life, all through the shed blood of Christ, is worth more to me than any of the things I have to turn away from in this temporary life.
But to most people….. it’s foolishness. The mindset of the world is that people are mostly good and undeserving of eternal damnation… and that God is some kind of indifferent “power” that doesn’t get angry and only demonstrates love and acceptance. Most times, they reject our gospel with a dismissive giggle—at least in their minds. In my reading today, I was reminded that even this kind of response is part of God’s plan.
“For the word of the Cross is folly [foolishness] to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. For it is written:
‘I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and the discernment of the discerning I will thwart.’
Where is the one who was wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the debater of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? For since, in the wisdom of God, the world did not know God through wisdom, it pleased God through the folly [foolishness] of what we preach to save those who believe.”- 1 Corinthians 1:18-21
It pleased God through the foolishness of the preaching of the Cross to save those who believe. Wow. This encourages me so much!! Not because of the fact that people think the gospel is foolishness…..I wish that they would see it as the wisdom of God and trust in it. But I’m encouraged because even the world’s response of thinking “the gospel is foolishness” is a testament to the authenticity and reliability of God’s Word.
And how much of a blessing is it that we, followers of Jesus, do not see this glorious gospel as foolishness! Like I said earlier… the gospel makes sense to me. And if you’re a fellow believer, it makes sense to you. But friends, we can’t even take credit for this. If it were not for the Spirit of God, we would spit at the proclamation of the good news that we presently hold fast to.
“But, as it is written,
‘What no eye has seen, nor ear heard, nor the heart of man imagined, what God has prepared for those who love him.’—
these things God has revealed to us through the Spirit. For the Spirit searches everything, even the depths of God. For who knows a person’s thoughts except the spirit of that person, which is in him? So also no one comprehends the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. Now we have received not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might understand the things freely given us by God.”- 1 Corinthians 2:9-12
It is God who gives us the ability to understand, believe and trust in the gospel of Jesus Christ. It is by grace, purely grace, that we are on this side of the fence, so to speak. The reality of this urges me to not get angry with unbelievers and use “the gospel is foolishness to those who are perishing” as a let-me-beat-you-down verse, but rather to remind myself that I would be responding to the gospel in the same exact way if it were not for the grace that God chose to show toward to me.
Let us pray for those who consider the Cross of Christ as foolishness, that God would grant them repentance (in mind and action)……but let us also be reminded that God planned for this “message” to be foolishness—we can trust in the unbreakable solidness of His Word. And what’s even more encouraging to me is that I don’t have to manipulate the message of the Cross to make it more acceptable— whether the response from others is faith, or whether it is a smirk, God is in control. And He is glorified either way. He will be glorified in demonstrating His mercy on those who receive His gospel…. or He will be glorified in demonstrating His wisdom against the backdrop of the true foolishness of those who reject His gospel.
Awesome post!
matt, screw the world and i mean that abstractly…we can not live our faith by the opinions of others. I could give two hoots how the world views my faith. Its only important how i view it. God did not kill his Son, sin killed Christ and God is not the author of evil. Let me ask you Matt when u speak of ‘the world’ are you meaning friends? Like in gay friends? Who more than likely on different page than you? Meaning u choosing Christ over homosexual activity? If yes maybe its time to cut them loose? Anyways great post. Thanks matt
@Davide
Matt should “cut them [i.e. gay friends] loose”????
Granted, if Matt’s gay friends become a stumbling block in his faith then sure, cut’em loose. With that said, it seems unwise to advice Matt to cut his “gay friends loose” solely because they think differently then he does. I, for one, wouldn’t like it if Matt only communicated with me just because I am successful in NOT falling into bed with men but the reality is I DO sleep with guys to this day occasionally. So what? My book isn’t finished being written. God knows the road of my life is still expanding/changing.
Remember the thief on the cross: He was saved at the last moment of his life. What did he do to deserve such mercy after a life of crime? nothin. Likewise, we will be surprised on judgment day when we see the ‘least’ of society standing higher than us in heaven due to God’s incredible forbearance and love while we are standing below them on that day.
“Remember me oh Lord, when you comest into thy Kingdom.”…amen.
yes clearly i was talking about those friendships that are stumbling blocks. I cut most of my gay frienshis something that was not easy but it was the right decision. It was far more important to remain close to those who were disinterested in my sexuality-in otherwords heterosexual males. Some of my gay friends were invested in me and that became a huge issue to me. Would i advice matt to walk away from those types of friendships? Obviously i cant make that call but certainly i could stand by such a decision.
mike, what did the criminal of the cross do to deserve mercy? Nothing? Really? Read the account again. He had repentence. Thats not exactly nothing. Yet u clain right here in your comment not to have full repentence. Thats not exactly nothing either is it?
Mike,
As sweet as that sounds, that is just not the way it will turn out. This is exactly what the, new breed, of false preachers are now allowing to be spoken out in their churches… The wolves in sheep’s clothing. The thief on the cross was taken with Christ because he realized this was the Christ he was next to… he turned at that moment and the Lord forgave him. He didn’t understand the truth before that moment… God cannot go against Himself, and His word clearly says in Romans 1:18-32 that your opinion of a rainbow ending is not true… but your desperate desire, is to be blameless when you are willingly going against God with your sinful behavior. The Apostle Paul talks about the flesh / the sInful nature and how difficult it is to NOT listen to your flesh…. But the good news is Paul teaches how we can over come our sInful nature with the help of Holy Spirit. Jesus didn’t leave us alone, He sent the comforter to help us…
I know this to be true because I too struggled with homosexuality, and I was delivered from it years ago! God didn’t take it from me right away. I had to struggle, at first, but I now am FREE from that imprisonment of that hell. I will NEVER go back to that horrific life. You can have freedom too of you want. Seek God and cry out to him from the depths of your heart and He will help you. You have to really want to stop the behavior and truly desire to be FREE from it. Just like drug addicts or pornography addicts it may be hard at first, but seek the Lord in all of this, and pray, read the Bible and stay out of gay bars and go to a good Holy Spirit filled church for prayer and fellowship.
I pray the Lord delivers you Mike as He is no respecter of persons, and what He did for me, He will do for you, but again, you have to want to truly be delivered, and you have to be tired of that lifestyle! I sought the Lord with all my heart and I was CONVICTED for the life I was leading!
God does NOT condone homosexuality! Satan does and he would love for you to die in that state.
Excellent Matt! We should as believers be reminded that we did not obtain this knowledge of salvation through Christ on our own accord or effort but it was the Spirit of God who revealed it to us. And without that divine revelation we to ourselves would still be hopelessly lost in the darkness of our own sin, blinded by the veil of this world. I think if we reflected on this more we would be more adapt to approach non-believers who scoff at our message of the cross with compassion.
Matt,
The only reason why anyone would call your beliefs in the gospel foolish is the way it is justified or verified. To believe in the Gospel and the depravity of man, one must begin their beliefs with the notion that the Bible is the World of God…. it is infallible… and it must be read literally. If one starts their exploration of God with that premise, then the gospel as you know it can make perfect sense…..all other evidence be damned. I fell for it, hook line and sinker, for the first 26 years of my life.
You do realize you are hanging ALL your theology on that belief in the Bible…. Right? Can’t you step outside of your own thoughts for a moment and realize that there are millions if not billions of Muslims who believe the same thing because of their belief in the Quran? They have equally impressive stories about how Allah moved their life. How do you know you are right and they are wrong? What proof do you have? How can you see so SURE in your belief system?
You see, it was all that other evidence that changed my beliefs. I met unsaved people that were genuinely more interested in who I was as a person than my Christian brothers (who only seemed to be interested in how close my relationship was with the Lord). The idea that “Jesus is the only way” just could not pass muster with me. If everyone is born hell board, what about the billions of people who never heard of Christ? They are in Hell? No way…. That makes no sense to me. If it were true, that is not a God I want to worship. After much debate with myself, the only conclusion that I could come to regarding my sexuality was that there was nothing innately wrong with it. It was natural for me. It is natural for me to find someone to share my life with. It would only be natural that that person be a man. It was small things like this that just didn’t jive with my ingrained view of God, the Gospel and the Bible. I had to read the Bible differently. It wasn’t Satan that led me astray…. It was good old fashioned logic.
I would never call the Gospel foolish. What I would call foolish is the notion that everything there is to be know about God is in the Bible. What I would call foolish is the notion billions of non-believers are in hell because they never heard about Christ.
@James: I agree with you wholeheartedly.
And Whosoever shall not recieve you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city. (Matthew 10:14-15)
Wow! I have been arguing about this with one of my friends. He didn’t call it foolishness though, but brain-dead idiocy. He said I was giving up my boyfriend, my life, everything for a God that doesn’t even exist. And of course now I “hate” myself, him and an entire segment of the world’s population. *Sigh* What upsets me most is that I don’t really know how to respond to him. I seem to say the wrong thing and make it worse then both of us walk away angry.
Michael, the best thing to do is not argue with him, give him a passage of scripture and leave it there. God says His word will not return to Him void. It will do what He wills it to do. Be patient and show your friend by the life you live how wonderful is salvation through the blood of Jesus. We can’t save friends, family or anyone for that matter but we are connected with the One who can. PRAY, PRAY, PRAY and leave the conviencing to God. The peace of our Lord be with you.
@ james i admit you have a genuine mind. Asking questions is a good thing. Coming from my position on sacred Scripture would be a different position than a protestant Christian. I believe the Church allows a broader and clearer understanding of Scripture. Catholics believe that the Bible does authority, but that authority comes from the Church guaranteeing it’s infallibly. The bible is the work of God and man. No NT writer seemed to be aware he was writing under the impulse of the Holy Spirit and no book claims a inspired book even if it had it would mean nothing even the Muslims claim the Koran is inspired. The Catholic position is the only one ultimately that can satisfy the intellect. The only reason any Christian has reverence for the Bible is because the Church says those books within are Sacred text. Something outside the Bible has to verify the sacredness of the scriptures. Just the simple fact that ALL Christians revere scripture and follow what is contained within the sacred Tradition of the Church, some people follow Catholic teaching and don’t even know it. The Bible itself came from the Catholic Church. Anyways thanks
@Davide
“All hale the Western Roman Catholic church!!!”…..(not)
lol good thing im not roman catholic
It is foolishness to associate tentative “ex-gay” experience and popular interpretations of already-distorted translations of Bible passages with “the Gospel”. Nope, you really “…don’t have to manipulate the message of the Cross to make it more acceptable…”; that manipulation has been prepackaged for you so that all you have to do now is just keep churning out the same bunk you’ve been given — to the applause of the moral majority. It is a great credit to God’s over-ruling grace, that anyone at all ever follows Jesus — given the foolishness that is actually preached and practiced in His name. Jesus sets his followers free and their burden is light. Jesus’ freedom does not require special support groups and therapy to sustain. Jesus’ freedom does not require a seminary psychology course to explain, either. Jesus’ freedom can be understood by a child — even a gay one. It is foolishness to pretend to be free when you’re not free and even greater foolishness to proclaim that kind of freedom to others. It crosses beyond greater foolishness into culpability when you preach warned-against distortions that cause children to lose hope in God’s love.
Yep….It certainly is true for many Christians. I think it is natural, though, especially here in the western world, where (a) the gospel has been so watered-down in an effort to be “seeker-friendly” that it has more or less lost it’s power, and (b) materialism and naturalism run so rampant, that our hearts can easily be turned away from God, and our minds distracted. God has been “explained away” by so many people through bad science, and they ridicule our belief in the Lord.
Listen to the stories of missionaries to other countries, where supernatural and demonic activity is the norm, and the church is so persecuted that it MUST remain strong or die, and you will notice the difference. We are the richest nation in the world, but spiritually, we are impoverished. Materialism has taken over the hearts of so many people.
Yes, people ridicule us, and tell us that we are foolish to believe. Many of them are atheists. Guaranteed, those people who claim to be atheists have never been to India or west Africa, and certainly have never seen an exorcism.
April…when I read a comment like yours it makes me wish there was a “Like” button such as on Facebook. I couldn’t agree more about the stories that I too have heard from the missionaries of my own church, as well as those whom we sponsor that occasionally pay us a visit. Stories from very reliable people regarding exorcism from demonic possession, healing miracles, and even the dead being raised. Excellent post April! Praise the Lord!
Thank you, bigchas40. Ya, stories like that are most definitely difficult to refute. A person can turn a blind eye to the spiritual realities surrounding him, but it doesn’t make the reality any less real. I do think its natural to doubt. Even John the Baptist had his moment of doubt — and the Bible says that there was no greater man born among women. It’s unbelief of the heart that God condemns, not doubt.
I know there have been times when I have questioned my faith. It’s easy to do when the world constantly slings arrows of ridicule at you….and of course, Satan uses those things to plant those seeds of doubt in our minds.
It’s like that old saying, “there are none so blind as those who refuse to see.”
I know that in my case, the ONLY way I am able to resist these things is be manitaining a close walk with the Holy Spirit, even though I may be called ignorant, or told I am living in the “dark ages.”
On that note, I stumbled across a blog the other day…Last words of renowned atheists on their deathbeds. Sobering, terrifying stuff.
James:
Your last sentence above refers: “What I would call foolish is the notion (that) billions of non-believers are in hell because they never heard about Christ.”
Let us not change the subject. Let us leave it to God to deal with those who have never heard about Christ. God did not reveal the ultimate destiny of those people to us christians in the Bible. We simply do not know their destiny and will never know.
But now that we have learned that certain people do not know Jesus Christ, what are we doing about it ? Do we spread the Gospel ? God will certainly ask us such questions when we ultimately appear in front of the Throne on Judgement Day.
That was only one sentence that was used as support to my overall premise…..which is that it is quite dangerous and foolish to use the hard line, literal interpretation of Scripture as your primary and only source for understanding God. Many who read this blog believe that very concept…… Salvation through Christ is the ONLY way to eternal life. I cannot accept that reality. It flies in the face of a just, loving and FAIR God.
This same reading of Scripture is forcing Matt into a life filled with struggle and judgment from many Christians (Many come here just because he is spreading their message that Homosexuality is bad and a sin. I know how they will turn on him if he changes his mind). He is expected to live a life free of love and companionship. He is expected to live a life free of sex…. Which isn’t psychologically or physically healthy for anyone. Matt has been duped into believing a toxic gospel. It is a gospel that is toxic for all….. but especially for us gays. The “Jesus high” can only last so long. No one deserves a life filled with permanently ignoring and rejecting your God given needs and desires for love, companionship and physical intimacy. It’s wrong, and I know every gay Christian who visits this board KNOWS this to be true. There is part of their brain and intellect that can see past the religious dogma and see the unfair and unrealistic expectations that their reading of Scripture is requiring. I pray that they accept this reality sooner rather than later. I’m tired of hearing about the suicides. I’m tired of “men of God” who continue to send young gay men and women into a life of self-hatred, drug addiction, promiscuity, and hopelessness. One of the most positive preachers (in the video link below) can’t even begin to stretch himself…. To put himself in a gay young person’s shoes …. Can’t even BEGIN to understand how his comments affects those young people.
http://www.cnn.com/video/?/video/bestoftv/2012/09/20/exp-point-osteen-homosexuality.cnn
My message for all the gay Christians here is that God loves you. You were fearfully and wonderfully made. Accept yourself for who and what you are. Gay does not equate to gay bars, promiscuity, HIV, etc. My gay equates to a loving husband of 9 years……. Dozens of gay and straight friends who would do just about anything for me if I should ask…… a great job working for a fortune 5 company that lets me see all parts of the world and couldn’t care less that I am gay, as a matter of fact it might actually help me in regards for their constant struggle to find diversity in their workforce…. That pays for my partner’s health insurance. Gay was last night making dinner for my husband… sitting on the couch watching TV enjoying a nice glass of Cabernet.
I’m not here to knock faith or Christianity. What I do condemn is the Toxic Gospel that is shared on this blog. I have 26 years of experience with that kind of Gospel. Nothing good came out of it for me. Nothing good can come of it for gay Christians.
I just stumbled on this…. and this writer says what I was trying to say…. much better. A must read!
Key message:
“One of the things that I have been very blessed by in the last decade of walking with gay Christians is to so often witness a tenacious and resilient spirit that believes God loves them for all of who they are. You can quickly see the difference in a gay Christian who accepts the reality of their sexuality and a same-sex attracted Christian who is in great conflict and striving to somehow overcome their attractions. There is a peace and calm about those who have accepted that their same-sex attraction does not disqualify them from God’s love. But there can often be an anxiousness in those who feel that their experience of same-sex attraction is something God is waiting for them to deal with.”
http://btgproject.blogspot.com/2012/09/it-is-what-it-is.html
My friend you are completely and totally deceived by the greatest deceiver of all… SATAN!
Romans 3:23 (KJV)
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God
John 14:6 (KJV)
6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
Romans 1:18-32 (KJV)
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet.
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things, which are not convenient;
29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31 Without understanding, covenant breakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they, which commit such things, are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them. These gay lifestyle choices and excuses are not, a surprise to God but it is up to you, we all have free will.
God cannot go against His own Word.
John 1:1, 2 says: “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God.” God’s word is true.
His word is not to be compromised as we have been compromising for way too many years, and now, we are seeing the repercussions of watered down, feel good, prosperity sermons… that has done nothing, but fill the pockets of the false teachers that sold out! Jesus and the Apostle Paul talk about the counterfeit gospel, spirit, and Jesus… satan counterfeits everything God has done because satan wants to be worshipped, The greatest method of deception is to counterfeit, and the master of counterfeit and deception is Satan.
The Bible in 2 Corinthians 11:14-15 warns of Satan’s counterfeit: “And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness . . .” Isaiah 14: 14 tells of Satan’s ultimate counterfeit: “. . . I will BE LIKE the most High.”
Satan wants to take as many as he can to hell with him… yes, there is a hell that Jesus talks quit a bit about in the New Testament. The problem is people rely on false teachers like Joel Osteen that has clearly said he doesn’t know scripture very well, but yet, he has millions following his foolishness as he smiles all the way to the bank. But God warns us in Gal 6:7 about this foolishness…
Galatians 6:7(KJV)
7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
People need to read the Bible (King James Version) for themselves, and not believe every preacher that comes on the scene. On judgment day God is not going to say. Oh it’s okay you chose not to open my Word, and you followed Joel Osteen instead of following My Word… Satan is the greatest deceiver and he stops at nothing! I say all this in love and only in love, but I cannot water down what needs to be said.
Preaching Jesus and Him crucified frees the sinner and convict the person of their sin, nothing less, scripture is very clear there is only one way to the Father. No more compromising…
I too was deceived years ago, and God ALMIGHTY delivered me from that lifestyle and ALL the excuses that came along with that deception! Honestly, I used to call myself a “gay Christian,” but really, there is no such thing. You are either a Christian (or) you are not, there is no such thing called a Straight, Black, Mexican, White, Asian Christian, you are just simply Christian as Act 11:26 describes… I know I have a lot to say about this, but I was on my to hell and that is no joke! Don’t be duped into the lie.
You believe God’s word and the entirety thereof, or you don’t… it is all up to us individually. I know this may make you angry… that is not my intent. But this is truth and sometimes the truth is hard to take. The Apostle Paul never apologized for his teaching of the gospel even unto death. He said in 2 Timothy 4:7 (KJV)
7 I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith
James you are right about one thing and that is GOD DOES LOVE YOU, yes He does. BUT He does NOT love the sin you are self indulging in. He is clear in His Word about how He feels about it.
I truly pray for your deliverance!
Proverbs 24:12
God knows the hearts and minds of those who have “never heard the gospel.” Why dont you stop worrying about them and let the Lord deal with them? On that note, you HAVE heard the gospel. What will you do with that?
@Davide,
So, you gave up same sex sexual relations, or your gay friends too, to spend time with straight males uninterested in you.
Well, okay.
I remember trying to explain to the mob here that sexual tension and attraction + threat, is something that faith communities foment. The artifice that the role of gender is solely sexual, or that homosexuality has no place in human life, is exactly why men and women are also at odds in the world. I DID ask why there is so much brutality against females and the gender variant. Rather than embracing both as the allies against sexual tension and gender based violence.
I have also tried to explain that people who embrace the Bible use it as a tool in order to never learn the truth about homosexuality or the aspects of it that are helpful to mankind.
Such beliefs are enforced, cruelly so, and homosexuals are preferred to disappear or become unknown shadows once more where no one really knows who they are, and gay people don’t know who they are or are supposed to be.
To some people of faith, ignorance is a false comfort towards that end. I’m a woman that has to deal with all kinds of men who have no respect for me, simply because I’m a woman and one that isn’t in lock step with their notion of femininity (whatever THAT is supposed to mean).
Individual character, nor virtues mean nothing, it’s only gender that seems to matter. How sad for the world, that such ignorance is still enforced and this blog and comment threads reflect that.
I, of course would respect what you all do as a choice, if there weren’t such breaches into and defamation of the character of gay people.
Jews, have been under siege and are blamed for all manner of things and have been for centuries. Many have tried to destroy them, and malign their character and murder them outright.
This is something that gay people have in common.
And if all the Jews who weren’t dead, had all been converted, who would speak for their history or who they really were?
Gay people are treated as if they are dead, while they live.
That is appalling and here you are, saying yes, you deserve to be dead as a gay man and alive as a straight one?
And why are the sins of heterosexuals not a matter for their character and virtues as individuals, because of THEIR orientation?
I don’t see the failures and exhaustion of their relationships a cause to celebrate never having them again.
Regan,
Hi-I missed you bunches!
Okay, the two main reasons many of my ‘gay’ friends and I parted ways [Totally none of your business but I'll take the bait]:
A. They were hostile to my religious beliefs and/or my heterodox sexuality.
B. Still others were far too invested in me…their sexual amorous and boy crazy doting towards me once charming and cute became irritating and quarrelsome.
So ya I cut them loose…rather some left me—-> go figure. So I wouldn’t worry yourself too much about them.
Now Regan let me ask you this:
Is it normal for me to think life is odd or do I dare say queer, when many of my ‘gay’ friends abandoned me because I had made a different (and intolerable) lifestyle choice and challenged to fall in love with a beautiful and generous woman?- save one or two guys. Even most of the ‘gay’ dudes who used to visit my blog daily stop coming….
How f@c£ed up is that?
But I wasn’t exactly innocent and I have tried to take responsibility for my fair share of the blame.
But….for the record Regan I find absolutely nothing more agonizing boring and nauseating than LGBT drama. Does this make me a homophobe? I am certain it does!!! But if you’re going to enjoy the popcorn you’ve got to watch the movie.
And Regan I apologize I did not read the rest of your comment-that would require me to remove my brain from the jar and it’s Friday.
Davide
@Davide
[Davide]: “Still others were far too invested in me…their sexual amorous and boy crazy doting towards me once charming and cute became irritating…”
Ah, behold the crys of one suffering. Poor Davide, the trials & tribulations of bein HOT! Still, I guess we all have our cross to bear in life. David’s cross just happens to be possessing supermodel good looks!
“Don’t hate me because I’m beautiful!”, says our Italian blogger.
No worries, amigo. We won’t hate ya. :p
James — You are operating under the false premise that the Christian life is all rainbows and roses. The truth is, those who really understand Scripture also understand that for most of us, the Christian life is full of struggle…that is because we live in a fallen world and are subject to a fallen nature.
I know plenty of Christian men and women who were, or are, addicted to porn, and for them, abstaining from it is a struggle. Sure, we could go by the philosophy that if it feels good, do it, and I am sure that they would experience plenty of “peace and calm,” because they wouldnt be experiencing that inner struggle of temptation….but those of us who truly know Christ know better. If you judge your Christian walk based on emotions and what feels good, then you are seriously deceived. Jesus didn’t die so that we could feel good about ourselves. He died so that we could overcome the sin that entangles us every day.
Christianity isnt a feel-good religion. For so many of us who struggle with sin, it is a battle. THAT, my friend, is the reality, and it is because Christianity is about renewing one’s mind, and crucifying the flesh every single day. Besides, homosexuals arent the only Christians that struggle with sexuality…..single, heterosexual Christians also struggle, especially those of us who have left a life of promiscuity to embrace Christ and His gospel.
Nowhere in the Bible is homosexuality condoned, no matter how much anyone may try to twist Scripture. The Bible condemns it, and to embrace a lifestyle of homosexuality is to ultimately reject Christ, even if you call yourself a Christian.
I know plenty of people who are not Christians, who are full of “peace and calm,” because they do not battle against sin, but have embraced it. Christianity is about taking up one’s cross, and abstaining from sin — not embracing it.
April,
I don’t believe in the idea of a “fallen world”. This idea that because someone ate fruit from the ONE AND ONLY TREE that they were forbidden to eat from somehow condemned the whole human race for the rest of history is just so silly to me. Why would God create the ability to sin? He didn’t have to. If he was all knowing, then he would have known that they were going to sin….. so why did God do it? Why would a piece of fruit carry such a heavy burden: Condemning all of human history to death and destruction? I simply cannot take the Genesis story or any of the Bible literally. Sure, it has key messages, but trying to hang our hat on every word leads us down a dangerous path. It is a toxic religion that teaches these things. It is a religion that is based on fear….. we are nothing… he is everything. Ugh! I lived with that kind of toxic religion for 26 years. It’s dangerous and harmful.
Matt’s sexuality and my sexuality are as natural and healthy for us as any straight person’s sexuality. To deprive oneself of love, companionship and physical intimacy is not healthy. “It is not good for man to be alone.” Trying to draw a parallel with straights struggling to remain “pure” is a very weak analogy. There is a huge difference between someone waiting for physical intimacy until marriage vs the outright prohibition of someone EVER enjoying love, companionship and sex.
You call the Christian life a battle. Do you really think that is what God intended for his followers? Christ was all about freedom from the law. I believe the best way for any Christian to run their life is by his two greatest commandments: Love God with all your heart…… Love your neighbor as yourself. Christian’s lose sight of these two commandments. They don’t love their gay neighbors like themselves. How can anyone learn to love the Lord with all their possible understanding if they don’t learn to love another human being?
We want to encourage any and all who let the Lord use them in this way. Keep up the GOOD WORK! Don’t let the enemy discourage you! Know that your fellow soldiers here at AGGRESSIVE CHRISTIANITY are praying for you and beseeching God to bless your work. Our prayer is that God will raise up more ROYAL REGIMENT RAIDERS in this hour, for the need is greater than ever.
If you could use AGGRESSIVE tracts and booklets to distribute please contact us and we will supply them FREE OF CHARGE. If you need prayer support you can contact us for that as well. It is time we stand SHOULDER TO SHOULDER in this terrible struggle to see souls redeemed! We are the ARMY THAT SHEDS NO BLOOD!
http://www.aggressivechristianity.net
Regan, James, John G Christensen, I wonder why you insist on projecting self-hatred, bondage, misery, denying himself ALL (all caps just for you, Regan ;>) ) love and companionship onto Matt. If you actually read his posts, he expresses just the opposite as his life experience, unless you are referring to his life as a sexually active gay man. Plenty conflict expressed about that time.
I don’t insist on anything, Milton. Except civility and a comment about the issues that affect ALL relationships. These are fair to. Davide insists on being childish and if I judged everyone by his example as well as a few others as the few others who won’t engage anything else but self righteousness in their faith, I’d say that they aren’t doing a very good job of trying to make Christians approachable.
I know, as a hetero woman, that hets get off the hook for things that gay people are forced to feel guilty about and threatened with. I’m also a member of a minority that’s constantly suspect and isolated from participating in the healthier and more supportive standards of coexistence. When there is a large majority of people being taught you’re not fit to walk the Earth, then there are some very tender young minds that are extremely at risk and harmed by it.
When a person has something to hide, or believes they are doomed unless they fall in lock step with beliefs and not realities, then that’s not something that can be supported considering the results of that haven’t been good ones.
So if I question that, because I’m the one dealing with that damage, then the source of it deserves challenge.
A woman’s burning body was found in the middle of the street, last week. Not long before that, after a car chase, a man shoved the body of his girlfriend he’d just shot out of his car and left HER in the street as she died.
I’m confronted every day, because of my job, with human depravity to do with domestic violence that should demand more attention. But it doesn’t. Especially not from faith communities.
And from personal experience in romantic relationships, as a married woman, I know that there are similar conflicts among straight men and women that’s idealized as better than those between gay people.
So it’s fair to ask, if no FAIR comparisons are made, how can anyone know that?
Sorry, taking it on faith ain’t good enough.
Since it’s just folks I see punishing each other because of conflicts of gender.
Regan, I do appreciate your attempts to engage here with many, including myself, whose worldview differs greatly from yours. I took Davide’s last reply to you not as childish, but a light way of saying he didn’t feel up to responding to the length of your comment, but he can speak for himself.
There does seem to be a thread running through most of your comments, that of man’s inhumanity to man (and woman). Certainly God sees and deplores all acts of violence, oppression and depravity humans committ against each other, and have committed since the Fall, beginning with Cain murdering Abel. He has no favorites, gay or straight, male or female, black, brown, yellow or white, etc. Whether the excuse for violence be skin color, gender, age, status, etc., before a holy and sinless God, there is none righteous, no, not one. God is not slow concerning His promises, or His judgement, but is merciful, giving all a chance to repent before the day of judgement. So we will witness much evil done that seems to escape God’s notice, but be assured that all will be accounted for, now and/or in the next life.
In your profession you see far more instances of, and the actual human victims (and perpertrators) of evil, than most of us will ever see, even watching the nightly parade of human misery on the evening news. That can only be a heavy burden for you, and it would crush the strongest of hearts without being healed and refreshed by the Holy Spirit daily and without periodic time away from the battlefield.
But Christians (at least those who know Scripture and know they are forgiven their own evil only by the shed blood of Jesus on the cross received in faith) do not see you or gays or liberals or any other human as the enemy. Ephesians 6:12 “For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places.”, that is, against Satan and his fallen angels. You struggle against this same evil, but without the power of God, who alone can defeat the devil. The battle can only be won by the power of God working through us, not by our strength or goodness (we have none of our own) alone. 2 Cor. 10:3-4 “For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war according to the flesh, 4 for the weapons of our warfare are not of the flesh, but divinely powerful for the destruction of fortresses.”
I urge you to bypass us and our comments (we are only sinners ourselves, though forgiven) and go straight to God in His Word and in prayer for strength, vision, perspective, hope and healing. If you do, you may come to see that we are actually your brothers and sisters, and not your enemy. May God bless you richly and fill your heart with the joy of knowing His real and personal presence!
Actually, Milton…the very first thing Davide said to me when I first got here, was insulting and he’s been antagonistic ever since. Because you haven’t known or don’t remember is the reason he gets away with being that way.
He’s not important.
Your words are cold comfort Milton. That is the common thread here. For all yours and the words of others here that point to God being the ultimate judge, that’s not what actually happens. As I’ve said before, it’s just plain folks that go around judging AND punishing people they don’t believe measure up to their standards of what and how others should live as part of their faith system.
I have young people who trust me. Who are confused by the doctrine espoused here. And rightly confused because contradictory messaging occurs constantly. These kids are told one thing that’s evil, that doesn’t track or resemble and bad acts against another human being. But are a matter of being different. And that difference isn’t allowed the light of knowledge. When their peers commit suicide, or disappear into reeducation camps or are changed in a way they can’t and don’t recognize them, that frightens them. And fear and the exploitation of ignorance are the TOOLS of evil, not the path to enlightenment, let alone NECESSARY progress.
All your platitudes are repetitive, and don’t get at the HEART of what matters the way you think it does. I’ve been able to step outside and observe and analyze what’s happening and what happens. Our modern society is still arguing the role of gender in our lives. Demanding strict adherence to those roles, disregarding the damage done and that it’s impossible. Not for reasons of defying God or nature, but because ordinary human beings from a BYGONE ERA misinterpreted their world and place in it. But especially the place of others in which they have to share that world.
Evil can be misinterpreted too. And it shouldn’t take the more obvious acts against human beings to recognize it. There are subtler ways of that occurring, and denying it can come from the book you so believe and worship is just another way of being too fearful to think otherwise.
hey!! Its amico not amigo i aint Latino!!! Good night Mike
@Davide
So ur sayin ya not only have somethin against the gays but now ur against Mexicans and their dialect too!!?
U may not be Mexican but I am…papi!
Buenos Noches a-m-i-g-o.
Done.
From Genesis all the way through to Revelation the Bible is complete and the ONLY TRUTH. I don’t need nor do I want to read another book to find out more about God. We only need the one, Bible! I am gay and I know it is a sin for people of the same sex to have sex. I have been saved about 8 years and I have never had a doubt if it was really wrong. I’ve read many comments that imply that if a person has to struggle then they are doing it wrong. This is one of the biggest lies that satan has put out. The truth is that if you don’t struggle from time to time then you need to repent. Why would a person struggle when they are already a servant of satan? They wouldn’t! When they are saved and become a servant of the Most High God then the struggle begins because the devil wants them back. Everyone, don’t be fooled by these people who offer that advice! Then some people have mentioned learning the truth by using their own “logic”. Another fatal mistake, the wisdom of man is foolishness to God. As for me and my house we will serve the Lord! It is not the will of God that any should perish, but humans have free will, so stop saying you don’t believe God will send you to hell, He won’t YOU WILL SEND YOURSELF.
God loves us all but He hates the sin in our lives! So Jesus came and gave Himself that we can go to Him, repent of our sins, then God can look at us and be our God and we can be His children.
Matt, great post!! April I totally agree with you and your comment and I also thought that Bryan Matthews absolutely hit the nail on the head.
I haven’t ever been one to disrespect a person’s religious belief. I really haven’t. I don’t call it foolish, nor do I tell people they are wrong to have that faith. I can read. I read these comments, and I read Matt’s articles. But I have questions that weren’t taken seriously and deserved to be.
Apparently, the group here isn’t tracking the subtext of that.
1. There isn’t much respect for those of secular or less strict adherence. And because it’s not hard to see millions of Christians doing the exact opposite of the commandments of Christ, being openly hypocritical.
2. And those same millions of Christians are projecting a hyperbole that’s a form of hysteria that someone and/or something is out to persecute, silence, denigrate them.
When in fact, most people don’t have the will, energy or means to do that.
You’re not the only ones who matter, nor should you be. I initially came here to see what I could learn to help the teens that I mentor. For all your articles and declarations, I can see where a lot of you could do a great deal of harm and wouldn’t care you did, nor could you take it back once done.
No not foolish, just not doing and not what you say…or think you are.
Hi Matt I hope you read this. I really needed to hear this today. God bless you for your Blog that teaches unbelievers the truth and strengthens those who belive and need encouragement.
Over and over again, I try to give this blog an outside observation and try to learn something without saying anything.
Understand this, the recent Pew study regarding less believers in our nation, boils down to this:
The song remains the same. The Bible is never going to change, and neither are the people who say they are firm believers.
Which is boring. The same thing gets said about being gay and gay people, and the indifference to the harm of that is appalling.
There is SO little diversity or differentiation of person, you might as well be the same person.
Most of the comments here are repetitious, and reveal little about the person, except their lack of success with their same sex attraction, and same sex relationships and turning to an intangible one because it’s a LOT LESS challenging than dealing with real people. Intimacy takes trust, and MUTUAL commitment.
THAT is what is brave, however it might hurt and frustrate.
Heterosexuals go through the same relationship problems. So anyone selling it as the holy grail of compatibility IS foolish.
Why should a gay person believe a het considering that THEY aren’t better people for it.
Most of the people here were either let down or let others down, and there are some people who recognize when someone is using the Bible as a crutch, for denial or hypocrisy.
I think it’s not about thinking the Gospel is foolishness, so much as it’s fools who use it as a tool to betray other people.
When the Gospels are used to point fingers, condemn others and exclude them, then they can and should be challenged.
And, the Gospels are a poor substitute for character and virtue. You can repeat them over and over again, but when deeds betray it, then take responsibility for that.
Most people have a religious education from childhood. And the message doesn’t really change and sometimes people of faith are grossly indifferent to the harm THEY cause.
Too often in fact.
To complain that one’s faith isn’t taken seriously enough, is because of who interprets it.
Hate to break it to you, but many of us know when someone DOESN’T trust God at all.
And many of us know when God and the Bible is used hypocritically.
And without being mistaken about that at all.
Regan,
What are you trying to say? I am very confused about your point.
Sorry you’re confused, by my comment Albert. What I’m trying to say is there don’t seem to be any real people here. No diversity of interests or tastes. The same things are said over and over again, with little deviance and I was looking for someone who wasn’t self congratulatory or repeating themselves.
The Bible isn’t going to change. But PEOPLE are unique, different, interesting and always will be.
But I can’t tell that from this blog or thread. And it’s something I don’t find particularly praiseworthy, but perplexing.
Regan,
It is about truth which is always unchanging unless it is from us which tends to change like the wind depending on the mood of people. Personality is displayed by the fact that God refers to us as his body which are many parts which playing a important role but truth is universal applying to us all the same in key essentials such as our desperate need for salvation found alone in Christ which makes the gospel distinct from all messages ever given to humans. We like Eve would rather seek the tree of knowledge of good and evil to be our own god just adding to the spread of evil which is ever contaminating the world. Humanity with all its wisdom is no closer to peace but just more skilled in cruelty showing the absurdity of our wisdom. God’s message is foolishness to the world but its power has transformed the most harden human to one of love even for their enemies. The truth spoken thousands years ago still speaks the same to the human condition today.
You’re not helping, freedomcampus. There is an inevitable condescension in the way you folks address a comment. Or question.
I don’t see heterosexuals having to restrain themselves on condition of the very things that make human progress, integration and understanding of each other.
I don’t think anyone here would agree that a racist’s word is more credible than the minority he’s trying to oppress. A non Jewish anti Semite is not credible about the lives of or being Jewish.
Yet, those who are not gay, and have complete control over any information about gay people are given divine right to order gay lives?
It’s been a tradition to say that God is the one who gives the orders, but that’s a stretch since it’s only people who historically have decided who has worth and who doesn’t.
I find anyone who believes that the world would be better off without gay people to be fools. There is no VIRTUE in being heterosexual. It’s not an accomplishment. Neither is suppressing being gay.
Young gay people pay dearly for what you do and say. Because I see every day the hypocrisy in conflating moral sins, which don’t change and ARE defined by how a person treats another, with the religious definition of sins. Which society ignores constantly and which has advanced people in a very good way.
And it’s only right to point out the inconsistencies, hypocrisy and contradictions YOU like to think are the truth.
Regan,
The irony of this conversation is that we as humans want to be arbitrators of truth versus what God has revealed in the scripture confirmed by four thousands years of witnesses whose words have been proven true time after time. It is not what I say that matters but only what God has spoken. My words in themselves are nothing unless they coincide with scripture which is the only firm foundation not shaken by time. There is a growing movement of humanity which seeks to emancipate itself from the rule of God believing the same lie that was given to Eve that we are able to rule this world better without God. We are going to see some very dark days ahead as we see the true nature of humanity without God. Anyone who stands with the truth will also face hard times as Christ himself predicted two thousands years ago. The motivation for speaking truth is not to win a argument but in love to wake up people to the deceptive lies being spread by the prince of darkness who is the real enemy of your soul. God sent his son into our dark world out of love for us to give us an opportunity to escape the destruction bought on by our sins and buy us back from the slave market of sin which satan owns. The history of man is tragically dark and sad constantly showing our true nature even it is religious but Christ came to demonstrate a radical love that could love its enemies which is all of us and offer redemption from our fallen condition. He is the only hope for us not a church but just Christ.
freedomcampus, there is no irony in this conversation, because it’s not a conversation. You give sermons. I’ve heard them all my life and don’t want a sermon. I would like to speak to PERSON, NOT a sermon. Fronting everything with repetition of things you didn’t create, or that has been used to punish people for little reason than being different…well, it’s boring. I’ve been looking online, and got some books on varieties of flowers and trees. And cannot get over how many KINDS of flowers there are!
I just watched the space shuttle drive slowly through a main boulevard in Los Angeles. I couldn’t believe it, and neither could many people very familiar with this place. The streets were full of thousands and thousands of people of every stripe. The joy, awe, spirit, inspiration, patience and peaceful nature of the event was something I thought I’d never see. The very kind of cooperation envisioned by Gene Rodenberry.
A man who saw a future of diversity in exploration and the search for answers and indulgence in curiosity.
For many religious communities, THAT is sin.
The significance of that piece and place in human history was shared and enjoyed in ways so rare.
The Biblical cultures didn’t have FLIGHT. Didn’t have a cure for many diseases, nor did they have anything close to the forms of social justice we have now. They stoned people to death, and nailed them up on crosses. Women were traded with livestock to be wives. Raped on demand and had little recourse when they were wronged. Women are blamed for the troubles of the world.
As many people get media wrong even NOW, getting it wrong among the illiterate and less demanding, who thought the Earth was flat, wouldn’t have been too hard.
God is not in WORDS. But in the miraculous, varied and diversified life all around us. We are seeing the vast universe through a roving eye that is the Hubble. The taste of grapes, the gift of olive oil and the ability to make beautiful things from stone is where God is. And most of all, yes, in the love one can have for another.
But when one of our brothers, cries out from pain, injustice and damage to his reputation and his ability to be self reliant, and you continue to spread that in the name of God, that is NOT love.
Know the difference.
As far as I can tell, you want to be right too and couldn’t care less when you aren’t.
Sermons, I can do without for now. It’s wondering who has the courage to go further than what they are TOLD to do, and demanding others follow the same orders.
From the typical comments here, there is great fear to be authentic and be oneself because of prior lack of control, being betrayed or betraying other people. THAT is a character issue that has nothing to do with sexual orientation, but LACK of the character to do better without intense disciplinary idealization of religious belief.
Either way, it’s messed up.
Regan,
Flat earth and lack of authenticity? Your comments reveal serious ignorance about scripture as given by Christ and the apostles and what the bible says about our world. As a believer I am told by Christ to be light for the world caring for the needy, outcast, hopeless sharing my life, money, and the message of Christ which radically delivered me from a pit of despair. I am called to truth and authenticity which means being honest with others in a community of believers so we can encourage and help each other as we light our paths with God’s word. We are also told to stand up for justice for the oppressed, rightly treating others and love even our enemies. All good things come from God but our world has much pain and darkness due to the fallen nature of man. I have been in the alleys and streets lately which shows what eventually comes from years of self-rule which shows the true nature of our fallen humanity but I have seen the power of the Gospel set these same people free from this condition. What did Christ and the apostles do? Christ warned that there would be false religious so-called christians and churches. This is why religion itself is not the answer but only Christ and the gospel. We are only called to believe in Christ and his work on the cross for us which transforms us into a new people who live out love in everything that they do. I used to be rebel venting much like you until my eyes were opened to the darkness of my own heart and the desperate condition of humanity. This is why I now use scripture for my basis of reference because humanity with its very changing philosophies generally end up rationalizing the unthinkable. Truth is better than personal opinions so I will sided with truth always. Our human history is filled with so pain and especially with the rise of humanism has human suffering intensified as humanity has no moral compass to guide their lives. God loves you despite what you may think of him and sent his Son to die for you and I both offering us redemption from both from our sin nature which dwells is us and satan who has humanity as his slaves. The good things many us enjoy told were heavily influenced by Christians who experienced God’s grace which brought us literacy, the red cross, hospitals, charities, and so many beneficial helps. What did the Soviet Union do for its people with its ashiest philosophy except sentence them to long years of suffering for simply expressing their opinions. Where the spirit of the Lord is there is true freedom. Religious belief without Christ is not the answer since it suffers from the same inadequacies as atheism bringing bondage and pain. Christ’s kingdom is not of this world but in human hearts who have placed their faith in him and whose lives shine his light into a dark world loving others with a radical love. The world is attempting to create a utopia without God as a one world governmental entity but it will only discover that it is only going to create the darkest chapter in human history. Christ loves you. You will be in my prayers but enough of this silly arguing. We may not agree but I love you with Christ’s love and so so my prayer is that you will experience God’ blessing in your life especially the revelation of Christ himself.
Romans 1:20-24 “For ever since the world was created, people have seen the earth and sky. Through everything God made, they can clearly see his invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature. So they have no excuse for not knowing God.
Yes, they knew God, but they wouldn’t worship him as God or even give him thanks. And they began to think up foolish ideas of what God was like. As a result, their minds became dark and confused. Claiming to be wise, they instead became utter fools. And instead of worshiping the glorious, ever-living God, they worshiped idols made to look like mere people and birds and animals and reptiles.
So God abandoned them to do whatever shameful things their hearts desired.
What a patronizing response. I’m not ignorant of Scripture. I was commenting on the cultures of the time and how there are things that don’t apply to our way of life now (and we DON’T treat people badly or rationalize doing so for reasons dictated by Scripture)). I also know there are still things that have never changed. Like the betrayal or harm towards another person.
I know PEOPLE very well. And I see how conflation of both factors are used to bad effect and shouldn’t be by the very people like YOU who claim they know better than anyone else about that.
Again, you posted a sermon.
Which tells me you don’t know how (or don’t want) to give a straight answer. As if you’re trying to sound so informed and virtuous (and impressive), without actually doing the same amount of work those of us who don’t USE Scripture as a substitute for character would do.
My state, has just banned so called reparative therapy for minors, and a few other states are posting legislature to do the same.
What Matt Moore and many others represent here, are part of the problem of capitulating to a socially, morally and politically intractable issue. The safety of coming out for the young, the expectation of their parents and society (sometimes under threat and duress) to change, and being told they are unworthy, of no value, and untrustworthy of participating in the same supportive standards of life, heterosexuals live without challenge. Especially to their character or potential.
It shouldn’t be like that and using Scripture or religious principles to keep maintaining such a harsh environment for the most vulnerable isn’t love.
That is a contradiction in reality and terms. And no one here is owning that at all.
Regan,
I never intended to be patronizing by my remarks but there are so alarming conclusions from human wisdom. There are now recent debates among professionals whether to kill babies before age of two since they now decided to define full human until two. Do you call this humane? We are not imposing our views this anyone and it is very disconcerting that your perspective only counts as worthy of consideration and to take away Matt’s freedom to speak his. None of us endorse the therapy banned in California so your point makes no sense. Why hate others for disagreeing with yours Tolerance is about diverse opinions not just the imposition of one views. This does not mean agreement but the freedom to speak out. What happened to you to be so mean spirited to Matt who chosen his own path found in Christ?
Your comment is one that is common among those who believe as you do. Taking a generalizing approach and thinking it can substitute for very specific things.
Namely, that faith communities are at the forefront of punishing gay people with the power of the gov’t. Using their majority advantage in political action at the ballot box, and tax exempt financial ability to do so, and also the religious and cultural misunderstanding of homosexuality to exploit fear and to force gay youth by duress from their parents to have that therapy. You don’t have to ENDORSE it.
All you have to do is NOTHING against it, and by default ENDORSING celibacy, or conversion, give validation to that exercise.
It HAPPENS.
And the truth about homosexuality, and the ability for gay young people to be free to be authentic and unchallenged in any other endeavor in life is seriously compromised. With people like you around, continuously using religious discipline to enable the bad treatment of other gay people at their most vulnerable, then don’t treat ANY of this as if it’s a choice that didn’t come at the expense of something more valuable.
Especially trust and honesty.
I don’t hate Matt Moore, nor his cohorts or those who wish follow this example.
I don’t TRUST him, nor you nor anyone else that makes the same declarations about homosexuality and tries to call it a bad thing and something that needs and deserves to convert and disappear.
And when a majority uses their power in this way to exact cruel civil policy on a PERPETUAL minority, with NO CHOICE in their orientation, it’s not a disagreement, it’s not an opinion. It is oppression. And you soft balling it as a disagreement, is so intellectually dishonest, it shows you don’t have the moral credentials you think you do.
A gay person shouldn’t have to be defending their orientation to this day, nor the reason they exist. And it’s folk like you that go along with a very deceptive, and damaging program.
No gay person should have to explain themselves or change to satisfy ever changing, contradictory and hypocritical standards. Not just of belief, but of civil law too.
And you know it does damage, and great harm. But it’s easier to blame the devil, and not your lack of stones.
That is why YOU can’t be trusted, and shouldn’t be.
Anti marriage groups are already doing something barbaric Biblical cultures and other gov’t have done: decided that some children have far less value than others, and use that gov’t to support their beliefs about that. Apparently to them, only the children of heteros matter, and the children in nuclear, biological parent based families deserve to matter more. Gov’t representative institutions like schools have decided that gay kids have less value than straight ones. And allow those kids to be tormented to the point of suicide or loss of valuable education for themselves AND their straight peers.
You KNOW this happens, yet you can sit by and boast that your religious belief is right, truthful and it’s validity certain.
For this, you deserve no praise or respect. And then play victim and as if you’re persecuted and have no power or enough to influence things the way you want.
Well, you don’t deserve to. Faith communities can screw up and badly from breaking trust all on their own.
I happen to LOVE God. I love God for gifting us with this world of immense uniqueness, diversity, and variation. I know what love is. I know what trust needs and deserves. I trust God, I trust what real love does for gay people. And what love does, certainly wouldn’t want gay people to disappear, but to be the vital and uncommon part of human life homosexuality and gay people always have been.
Regan,
You are in my prayers. We as believers in Christ are called to love all people and treat with kindness whom Christ died for. Sin and satan are our real enemies and his deception is the greatest danger that we face. I am not interested in politics because it is a spiritual battle that we face over the hearts and minds of people. Too much evil occurs when the church becomes a pawn for politicians. This is happen with Constantine and so many other times in history. I am sadden to hear that some have done this to others. In my prayers as always. Christ came to set us free from sin.
The 19th was Spirit Day, in which young people can take an opportunity to come out, support their gay friends, and bring awareness regarding bullying and the lack of safe places there are for gay youth. One school showed that spirit by wearing t-shirts with the words, “Love Is Love” printed in bold. One girl made the news by responding to that with the words “Sin Is Sin” in a similar fashion.
The former message, would at first be one of openness, friendliness, compassion and honest.
The latter “Sin Is Sin” is dismissive, unfriendly and judgmental.
I know a very young woman, who had a baby girl six months ago. We’ll never have the conversation about the reality of threat gay youth live with, and she showed her solidarity with hostility towards homosexuals already. And told me the same thing “Sin Is Sin”, and she hasn’t spoken to me since. At one point, I thought we loved each other and were friendly. But I was dismissed with “Sin Is Sin”.
If her little girl is gay, or any of her subsequent children. That child is in for a world of hurt. Because I’ve seen plenty of parents choose doctrine, over their flesh and blood and it created a terrible hole in the family.
It didn’t take much for my young, insulated friend to dismiss me. She’s living in a kind of bubble that keeps her from ever knowing discrimination, exclusion or hostility and distrust.
And it also keeps her FROM EMPATHIZING with it, or caring if SHE is committing such a thing against someone else.
I was never shielded from such things as a child, because it was a time of great changes in social justice and there was no luxury of keeping it from me, because I would eventually EXPERIENCE it…and sometimes, still do.
I grew up with the Holy Book too, I know it inside out, back and forth. It’s a BOOK and old one.
I read all kinds of other books, about other eras and periods of injustice and what that means. My parents had the Q’ran, Bhagivah Gita, Confuscious…all kinds of books that have rooted many religions in the world.
And of all that, one thing is stable, unchanging and real.
That gay people, are not anti social, have the beauty and potential to do much that is good as any other person could.
That it’s unnecessary to change homosexuality, in order to be a good and whole person.
That is possible without any of the Holy Books, because homosexuality wasn’t invented by those books, nor is there any law of harm that it fits into.
However, much harm has come from enforced religious dogma. Friendships and families imploded, whole political schemes based on punishing gay people.
Seriously, these comment threads have revealed some messed up people. I’m not so messed up, but messed WITH.
I haven’t done anything TO anyone, nor have I spent my life working to betray anyone and then hide behind piety to justify it.
Your prayers, become the emptiest of GESTURES when the comments here, contradict the socio/political RESULT at hand.
I was dismissed by a young girl that doesn’t know and doesn’t have to, some real world issues because she’s thinking HER piety is enough.
It’s not. Never was.
I don’t need any empty words that God loves me from YOU. I know the love of God in the beauty of children, our creative and inventive abilities. Our curiosity and our love and compassion. I know God is in the caress of the wind, and the colors of everything.
Give your patronizing a rest for once and try and have a conversation about what to do about the injustice of threatening gay children before they have a chance to nurture their real identity and understanding of their orientation for everyone else.
When I get dismissed with a sermon in here, that pretty much signals how uninterested you are in giving REAL hope in JUSTICE to one of God’s rarer and no less beautiful children.
Well?
Regan,
God really dealt with me the last hours about getting into this argument with you that it has not been very productive but just has led heated words between us. I need to apologized to you about letting my flesh dictated our conversation versus the Spirit of God. I really do care what happens to you. I do believe that we can trust an absolute truth which is Christ as found in the scriptures but we must always present it in love to our world which at times is not too receptive to the idea of absolutes based on scripture. I don’t know your past experience with those who claim to know Christ but He really did something in my heart and still does everyday with freedom, joy peace and love that is beyond a human love. You will be in my prayers.
2 Timothy 2:23-24 ” Don’t have anything to do with foolish and stupid arguments, because you know they produce quarrels. And the Lord’s servant must not be quarrelsome but must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful.”
Regan,
Just found this out this week which was a bit of a shock to me but the idea that the church or Christians thought the earth was flat is nothing more than a myth introduced by those who wanted to depict Christians as ignorant. Antoine-Jean Letronne wrote a publication attempting to tie the belief in a flat earth with the early church fathers, another author Revue des Deux Mondes. He was educated in the teachings of Mentelle and Voltaire. In 1798, he wrote a book claiming that Jesus Christ was an imposter. In Revue he wrote that the flat earth was the majority view of the early Christian writers. His statements were utterly untrue, but liberal scholars have quoted him for over two centuries. In combination, the works of Irving and Letronne made the flat earth myth into a generally received “well-known fact.” . B. Russell wrote Inventing the Flat Earth: Columbus and Modern Historians, 1991. He was no creationist, but he thoroughly documents how the invention of the flat earth was a direct attack against God, the history of the Christian Church and truth in general. His conclusion was that Secular Humanist authors were attempting to promote the idea that Christians were without intellect versus their (evolutionists) enlightened rationalism. n 1945 the Historical Association listed “Columbus and the Flat Earth Conception” second of twenty in its first-published pamphlet on common errors in history.
(Direct quote from Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat_Earth)
This belief is even repeated in some widely read textbooks. Previous editions of Thomas Bailey’s The American Pageant stated that “The superstitious sailors [of Columbus' crew] … grew increasingly mutinous…because they were fearful of sailing over the edge of the world”; however, no such historical account is known. Actually, sailors were probably among the first to know of the curvature of Earth from everyday observations, for example seeing how mountains vanish below the horizon on sailing far from shore.
Some historians consider that the early advocates who projected flat Earth upon Christians of the Middle Ages were highly influential (19th century view typified by Andrew Dickson White); current historians (late 20th century view typified by historian and religious studies scholar Jeffrey Burton Russell)[9] have asserted that White’s and other writings projecting flat Earth belief upon Christians are inaccurate, citing centuries of theological writings, and suggested the motivations for the promotion of such inaccuracies.
According to Russell,[128] the common misconception that people before the age of exploration believed that Earth was flat entered the popular imagination after Washington Irving’s publication of A History of the Life and Voyages of Christopher Columbus in 1828. Although some of the arguments attributed by Irving to Columbus’s opponents had been recorded not long after the latter’s death, there is no record of their having argued that the Earth was flat, and none before Irving is known to have accused them of doing so. Modern historians have dismissed the claim that they did so as a fabrication of Irving’s.
Just food for thought as seekers of truth.
Yeah, so what?
A seeker of truth, wouldn’t engage in social or political defamation that keeps a vulnerable and MISUNDERSTOOD minority, from being fully known and appreciated.
Religious doctrine and claims that it’s the best response to homosexuality is and always has been ruthlessly enforced and exceptionally pervasive and damaging to the truth.
Were anyone HONEST about that damage, or about how such religious and political practice maintains a wall of separation from really knowing gay people, then a lot of that damage can be PREVENTED.
It’s not natural for anyone to be this distrustful and hostile towards gay people and not all cultures or society HAVE been. Responding that way to homosexuality is rooted in essentially ignorant doctrine from cultures that didn’t analyze or understand the role of gender too well and still wouldn’t, were it not for some very brave and determined women and gay people. It’s not a response to anti social behavior, but a response that wanted to FORCE roles on individuals BECAUSE of their gender.
As you should well know, females and the gender variant and gay people are THE most oppressed and violated human beings in the world.
Misogyny is at the root of being so controlling of gay people, and since when has misogyny EVER been a good thing?
And when has equal justice for those of gender varying behavior ever been a BAD thing.
My simile regarding the flat Earth, was in context to how stubbornly fearful and hostile people are trained to be when it comes to learning about gay people. It’s cowardly, considering the universality of gay people and not the universality of one’s chosen religious path.
Religious leaders have usually been VERY resistant to the education, experience and integration of others. Very resistant to advancement in science and so forth.
If anything, the Taliban more closely resemble Biblical cultures and life. They are an example of what would have happened were the religious leaders of the time, had THEIR way.
Little girls would have been executed for demanding an education, or a divorce from grown men.
Let’s get something very clear: religious freedom means religious choice, not dictation or enforcement.
And it’s a sign of intellectual cowardice and hypocrisy that you and your religious choice enjoy the progress in social justice in this country, while you and millions of others try to keep gay people and homosexuality in a place locked back in the 19th century or further back.
Gay people were here first, before religious communities decided to scapegoat them for being different. If I had a choice, I’d rather the gay folks stayed, and YOU went.
Gay folks have NEVER been so dangerous as religious dogma in the world. Gay folks aren’t and couldn’t convert someone into being gay, they just want to live and in peace with everyone else.
That sure hasn’t been true of the most influential religions in the world, because that is how they got that way.
Regan,
Praying for you. Sadden to you have so hurt and pain in your life. God is real and has made a major change in my life so I have no desire to argue with you. Just praying that you will see Christ for himself not get lost in what humans do to each other. Christ died for us to set to free us to give real life and to know our real selves as God intended which is always the best for us. Christ was rejected because we as humans have made our minds that we can do a better job at being god despite the fact that we just make our planet just more filled with pain from our sins against ourselves, each other and God. I used to be to a rebel ranting about the evils of Christianity until I found Christ and he set me free from the bondage of sensuality and gave me life in Him that exceed all experiences that I ever had on earth. God’s presence is amazing so satan will do everything he can to keep you away from Christ. God loves you so much that he gave the greatest sacrifice so we all would have an opportunity for redemption to experience life at its fullest by knowing his Son Christ.
Oh ta. I think that it’s the gay teenagers that I mentor that need a lot more than prayers. I’m not the one in pain. I’m not the one rejected by my parents, or in need of guidance through the difficulties of being a misunderstood kid in a misunderstood minority.
You’re being patronizing…again.
Your religious platitudes are no substitute for really what’s right. And that’s ALL it is, religious platitudes.
Worn thin enough to see through for what it is.
@ Regan you just sound bitter and hard hearted to me. Your view of Christians and God is warped. I have suffered abuse and harm from the secular world. There is no comfort in this world. I am tired and done with the pursuit of vanity and the glorification of man’s reason and false humanistic reliance. What good has makind done that hasn’t been overturned and ultimately undone. In this world it is willfullness and stubborness that rules. One group overpowering the other. The seesaw affect of human nature. People looking for the strong man thier Goliath to overthrow whatever they don’t believe in.
God is the answer.
If you are helping tender minded teenagers I applaud you but don’t be angry with them if they find Jesus someday and they will when they are ready.
hopefully I sounded different from all the others.God Bless.
Thank You for this important reminder! God has been doing so amazing in my life lately despite the fact that I am not much in the eyes of the world. The message of the gospel seems foolish to some on these posts who do not believe in the literal gospel given by Christ and the apostles but it is power of God to transform even the most lost and desperately evil human. If we step out into this dying world and become engage with those who are in need on the streets and around us, God will show his power silencing our critics. I love to see the posts and your updates but I have spent to much time arguing with harden individuals who worship their intellect to the point that they cannot see the obvious signs of God around us. We are called to think but we are blind without the truth of God’s word shining in our hearts. The first generation of Christians just prayed, preach the gospel and engage a hurting world and God show himself powerful on their behalf, God has not changed and he will do the same for us. Pray for our critics on these pages. I am also praying for my brothers and sisters on these posts that the revelation of Christ will be so great that we would quit our bickering on non-essentials instead only focusing on Christ not our traditions often made by man and love each deeply so we would be one as Christ prayed for us. We have a power, peace, love and joy in us we open our lives to Christ that the world cannot have or understand. They have to constantly run to their escapes going broke but we have Christ in us the hope of Glory. Praying for you also that God will speak thru you as the scriptures comes alive by the radiance of the Holy Spirit’s leading!
@ James I was reading about ex-gay ministers who apologized to people about their ministry saying they were wrong to think gay feelings would disappear and therefore we should accept the homosexual lifestyle. Likewise on the post you seem to think that if by denying the sexual self , “ … isn’t psychologically or physically healthy for anyone.”
And “ No one deserves a life filled with permanently ignoring and rejecting your God given needs and desires for love, companionship and physical intimacy. It’s wrong, and I know every gay Christian who visits this board KNOWS this to be true“
But, James I disagree. The Bible says over and over again to deny the self, to take up the cross, to crucify the desires of the flesh. He wants us to be holy not thinking about sex all the time. I was celibate for 7 yrs and I was the happiest I had ever been in my life.
A thought came to mind the other day “Of course their attractions didn’t change ( ex-gay Christians) mine haven’t, yet. God will either give a miraculous change or he will, over time, transform us or he will leave us in the state we are in, until he appears and then we will be in the fullness of Christ. This is a matter of FAITH not feelings !!
If we are to live by our feelings only then we are missing the point of Christ’s sacrifice.“ This is where people stumble. Jesus paid a terrible price for sin and those of us who accept him as our Saviour know what our sin has been. So for some of us we will struggle with these feelings probably until we die. What a wonderful testimony of faith that would be. Turn it on it’s head it’s all about Faith!
Thanks Moxiekat! Great word! Praying that you continue to grow in the revelation of Christ in you. I still struggle some with desires from the old life but living for Christ daring to follow him has filled my heart with such joy, love and peace that these old ways mean nothing to me. Christ can give us a love that no relationship can even come close to doing. Paul understood this and so he wanted to know Christ more because he found the greatest experience that a human can ever have. Worshiping sex or relationships will leaves us empty and wanting more and eventually disappointed us.