God is all powerful, correct? Indeed He is. So if homosexuality is an abomination before Him, why does God even allow so many people, including myself, to be attracted to the same gender? God is the ultimate “decider” of all things, and nothing happens without His permission or decree–nothing. Whether people are “born gay” or whether it’s environmental/emotional causes that spur on homosexual feelings, doesn’t matter—God could stop people from being born gay and God can stop “gay-inducing” environmental/emotional causes from ever occurring in a person’s life. Either way, If God wanted to, He could have kept me from ever even beginning to feel attracted to other men.
If God wanted to, He could have stopped Satan before he ever rebelled; but He didn’t. He allowed it. If God wanted to, He could have stopped Adam and Eve before they ever ate of the forbidden fruit; but He didn’t. He allowed it. To go even further, God could have stopped the sinful desire that gave way to sin from ever manifesting in Satan, Adam or Eve. But He didn’t. Nor has he stopped sinful desire from manifesting in the rest of us. God, for reasons beyond our comprehension, has allowed a time for evil to have its place in this world and in the hearts of humanity.
Now don’t mistake what I’m saying…..I am not saying that God is sinful or that God sins because He allows us to be sinful and sin. God is perfect, infinitely righteous and good—He commits no evil. But it must also be understood that everything, and I mean everything, happens under the umbrella of God’s sovereignty—-including our brokenness and every one of our sins. We can’t fully understand why God has chosen to let sin and sinful desire manifest in the world He has created— the wisdom of God is unsearchable. But what we can know is what He has revealed to us in the Bible. And He has revealed quite a bit.
God uses sin for His purposes: The Cross.
All throughout the Scripture we see God achieving the purposes of His heart amidst our sinfulness and even through our sinfulness at times—the primary example being the crucifixion of His Son, Jesus Christ.
The worst sins ever committed since the creation of the world were committed against Jesus Christ as He was scourged, mocked, blasphemed, and torturously crucified—by the very creatures that He created. God used murderous men and their heinous sins to fulfill the purpose by which He would reconcile the world to Himself—and it wasn’t His “plan B’. He predetermined it to take place as it did.
“for truly in this city there were gathered together against Your holy servant Jesus, whom You anointed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, along with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel, to do whatever Your hand and Your plan had predestined to take place.”- Acts 4:27-28.
We find in the Cross the most powerful expression of the love of God toward mankind. Jesus Christ suffered death and the full wrath of God for His people, for the very people who rejected Him, so that they could be saved and forgiven forever. God brought about what would be the best news ever proclaimed in the earth through the sinful actions of human beings.
God is sovereign over the human heart.
When a person sins, the person ultimately has a choice to either carry out his sinful desire or to refrain from it, which is true. But what many people have a hard time explaining to people that have homosexual feelings is why do they have homosexual feelings if it’s wrong? People (including myself) are sometimes afraid to admit the fact that God has the final choice in whether or not a person struggles with homosexuality. But He does. God is God– and part of being God is having absolute authority over everything. God is in control over all of His creation, including our thoughts, feelings and emotions—our hearts. This is found throughout the entirety of Scripture. From Genesis to Revelation we see God hardening hearts, softening hearts, changing hearts, and on and on.
“The king’s heart is a stream of water in the hand of the LORD; He turns it wherever He will”- Proverbs 21:1
“But Sihon the king of Heshbon would not let us pass by him, for the Lord your God hardened his spirit and made his heart obstinate, that he might give him into your hand, as he is this day.”- Deuteronomy 2:30
“And the Lord said to Moses, “When you go back to Egypt, see that you do before Pharaoh all the miracles that I have put in your power. But I will harden his heart, so that he will not let the people go.”- Exodus 4:21
“I will give them a heart to know that I am the Lord, and they shall be my people and I will be their God, for they shall return to me with their whole heart.”- Jeremiah 24:7
As difficult as it is for us to grasp, our entire heart–everything we think or feel—is under the total control of God. The fact that I have homosexual feelings is not an accident or outside the control of God. God is choosing, this very day, to allow me to struggle with this. If you identify as gay or struggle with homosexuality, you need to know that God is choosing, this very day, to allow you to struggle with this. You might say, “Not fair! How can He tell me to turn away from something that He allows me to feel!”— I understand why you’d feel that way. I really, really do. For me the only thing that conquers that thought is remember what Jesus Christ did for us. It also wasn’t “fair” for Christ to die so that we could be forgiven for the things we did choose to do and to one day be freed from our sinful desires/sin nature completely. And not only will those who believe in Jesus be freed from sin’s presence one day, but we are freed from sin’s bondage now. Christians struggle, yes, and are tempted, yes… but Christians are not enslaved to sin like unbelievers are. We are able, by God’s Spirit, to choose to follow Christ rather than choosing to give into temptation. An unbeliever will not and can not choose to follow Christ rather than sin because the love of God has not been poured into their hearts by the Holy Spirit. But we have received God’s love which has enabled us to love Him back—and our love for Him frees us from the lordship of sin. <—–And we don’t get any of these benefits of Christ’s work if we want “fair”—-if we want “fair”, we get Hell. If you get nothing else out of this entire blog… please get this: Jesus dying for you was not “fair”— It was love.
So could God have stopped my homosexual feelings from ever developing? By all means, yes. But He didn’t, which in turn communicates to me that He has a purpose for allowing them to be there. I do not claim to know why. And I doubt that I’ll ever know the the fullness of His purposes in allowing me to struggle with this. But if I can be completely honest, I would venture to say that if it weren’t for these corrupt desires, I do not know that I ever would have considered myself sinful enough to need Jesus Christ. God definitely used my sexual brokenness to open my eyes to how depraved and in need of His mercy I am. But why didn’t He just cure me whenever I believed in Jesus? I don’t know… but I believe that my continual struggle is for a purpose. If God is in control of my struggles, which He is, then I know my struggles are not in vain! When I am at my wit’s end with wrestling with desires I know I shouldn’t act out on, I can always remember that God has allowed me to wage this war against the sin inside of me for a purpose. One purpose I do believe He uses my twisted desires to accomplish is to remind me of my minute by minute need for His grace, mercy and power. I am truly able to see, and rejoice in, how God has used such a detestable thing, like my homosexual feelings, to bring about my dependance on Him. And my dependance upon Him gives me joy and peace—which is true life.
I think I’ve been clear, but just in case, I want to say that I am in no way condoning nor encouraging one’s acceptance of homosexuality. We should want to turn from sin and fight temptation daily (in fact, we are commanded to… there is no negotiating) and pray that God deliver us from it! But my point is this: if the feelings don’t go away immediately and totally, as they often don’t, you can remember and believe that there is a reason, a purpose. This blog is geared toward the struggle with homosexuality…. but it applies to all sinful struggles. We all have sinful natures and struggles that we wish we didn’t have. But Christian, know that God is working everything— even your struggles—for your good and His glory. So keep fighting… soak yourself in the Word, pray without ceasing, and persevere.
“ And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose. For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.
What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? He who did not spare his own Son but gave him up for us all, how will he not also with him graciously give us all things?” Romans 8:28-32
- Matt Moore
- moorematt89@gmail.com
[When I say "Be Gay" in the title, I mean it in the sense of someone who has homosexual feelings. I don't mean "Be Gay" in the sense of someone who chooses to act out and define themselves by those feelings. I know many Christians don't agree with the way I title some of my blogs, and I understand why--- it can be misleading, if you just read the title. But I do so because I'm trying to reach an unbelieving audience.. and when they use google, they are going to use the word "gay" rather than "same sex attraction" or "homosexuality" and are more than likely going to click the link if it's titled in a way such as this one.]
Amen Matt. God has a plan even in our struggles.
Romans 9:17-24
“I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.
One of you will say to me: “Then why does God still blame us? For who is able to resist his will?” But who are you, a human being, to talk back to God? “Shall what is formed say to the one who formed it, ‘Why did you make me like this?” Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for special purposes and some for common use?
What if God, although choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath—prepared for destruction? What if he did this to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory— even us, whom he also called, not only from the Jews but also from the Gentiles?
What if Paul misspoke on occasion? Would your world fall apart? What if he came to you, having undergone the transformation [theologically, philosophically, psychologically] of the past 2000 years and said:
“I didn’t really understand God at that stage of my life. The idea of a wrathful God is from the spiritual infancy of mankind, it’s way too pagan, really, and degrades the notion of a Holy Will to that of a capricious all-too-human parent with anger issues. And too Jewish at the same time, though a Jew would laugh at the suggestion. [God did I alienate a lot of my former Jewish friends, but I'll save that for a different thread.] Also, you’re need for a stern, unquestionable authority should not mislead you to challenging the words of men about the Almighty. Everything I and my contemporaries penned represented our best attempt to embody what we imagined the dynamic between God and his created children to be in the light of the Jesus-event–the life and death of our inspired teacher–and the impending catastrophe. It was propagandistic, but in the best end-of-time, pedagogic-spiritual sense. We had a mission and given the state of our communities expressed ourselves rather forcefully. We shamed and condemned people in a very un-Christ-like manner and brought great suffering to generations of believers and believers’ hapless victims. I regret that, but I had no idea my letters would be treated like Gospel for the duration of mankind’s sojourn on the earth, which has, in the absence of the return of our Lord and the world’s ending, run on rather longer than I anticipated. Had I known that I would have expressed myself with a bit more nuance and restraint. Besides, those letters were directed at specific communities of believers and their spiritual confusions in the infancy of our ecclesiastic institutionalization. In my anger I often said things without checking with the teachings of our Lord, imagining myself to be an inspired, inerrant prophet. I suppose that is the temptation of all proselytizers. And why we never stop repenting.”
Scripture is a poor substitute for real first-person revelation. If you haven’t experienced it, your faith is based on hear-say and ear-witness accounts. How derivative. If you [not you specifically, but anyone answering to the description of a book-based faith] were an artist you would be the eternal copier of other artists’ works. Revelation should come first, after which you can make use of any and all writings by spiritual teachers to try to understand It. The choice is yours. You are not a prisoner unless you desire your own incarceration. Many people confuse servitude and bondage with salvation.
I want you to know that every time I read one of your blog posts, I tear up with gratitude that God has chosen you to be my brother in Christ! You may not know me, and I don’t struggle with homosexuality myself, but I am personally so blessed by what Jesus is doing through you! Keep following His leading, Matt. I’ll keep praying for you!
<3 ~ L.
My thoughts exactly.
Love you Matt!!! I feel like you have addressed this before but by reading it I learned things that weren’t found in you’re other posts related too this topic. Anyways, this is so important.
Hi Matt,
I am glad that you keep on posting. I am in full agreement with your views. That is exactly how I also interpret the Bible.
Stay on the road that you have now embarked. You are in my thoughts and prayers.
You are certainly serving the will of God with your blog. Keep going. If that was God’s purpose with your life, then the Lord’s blessing will follow your footsteps.
Your “thorn in the flesh” is not extra-ordinary. Others are struggling with adultery, lies, kleptomania and name every sin that one can think of. As true believers in Christ we need to support each other. Satan wanders around with lots of energy. Nobody can fight satan with own power. Read: 1Cor10:12 “Therefore let anyone who thinks that he stands take heed lest he fall. ”
But then the christian comfort and help:
1Cor 10:13: “No temptation has overtaken you that is not common to man. God is faithful, and he will not let you be tempted beyond your ability, but with the temptation he will also provide the way of escape, that you may be able to endure it.”
Matt,
I have to say that sometimes when I read one of your blogs I have to wait, let it settle and go over it in my mind. I have said before that God doesn’t want heaven full of robot like beings, but heaven full of people that had a choice and chose to serve Him. People who can see the beauty of the complete and total wisdom of His will. I admit I don’t understand why about many things but I have confidence that God receives glory through everything. I remember something someone said once, “I ain’t where I could be, I ain’t where I’m gonna be, but atleast I ain’t where I was.”
So good. So, so good! Keep fighting the good fight, my friend.
This is an awesome blog post. I have been struggling, and recently in church we’ve gone over the book of Ephesians and talked about God’s grace, and the power that He gives us over sin, to walk away from it rather than indulging.
Thanks for reinforcing that.
Matt, Hey! Didn’t you post this before or am I having deja vu?
Okay anyways here are my thoughts—> I [think] it’s quite simple really: FREE WILL
If God were to take our free will from us what kind of love is in that? Christians aren’t robots. We are human. Even the angels had free will but were not afforded mercy. We humans are lucky we have both!
There are a billion “What if’s…” What if those waiting to be born didn’t have to be aborted? What if nations didn’t go to war? What if there was no crimes against humanity? What if there was no poverty? What if homosexuality could be prevented? What if marriage was only between a man and a woman? What if there were no children denied the basic natural right and human dignity to he raised by a mother and father? What if there was no sin?
What if there was no Cross?
Do we really think we can call ourselves disciples of Christ without our own calvary? Our own crucifixion?
We can either choose to live in the shadow of the Cross or willing to be nailed to it..it’s our own free will.
[Personally] Matt I don’t believe God wills anyone to have same-sex desires or orientation. To me that is absurd.
The attraction itself is disordered, a deviant in relation to the moral norm. The norm is heterosexuality. Even biologically our bodies were created for the opposite sex regardless of our personal feelings and desires. If homosexuality was normal and usual than why in the world are homosexuals created with sex organs that create life? They serve no PRIMARY purpose for the homosexual.
So homosexuality is a objective disorder. However is not sinful until acted upon..free will.
Okay thanks
F. Davide
Must we go down the “Gay is not Natural” argument?
@ james, no more so than gay is natural. Crap we don’t even say homosexual anymore. Gay is more pleasing to the eyes and ears, no?
Davide, you’re SO right! Change the word and the acceptance level changes, as well. This issue also points to a larger problem — immorality and its acceptance. There seems to be two differing mindsets in society — following God’s will or following one’s own will (which is, in reality, a form of following Satan’s will). Thus there are different lifestyles and justifications which arise from these different mindsets. We see this all around us. Homosexuality is no longer perversion; it is an “alternate lifestyle.” Drunkenness (a sin) is no longer acceptable; now it is “alcoholism” (a sickness). Abortion is not about murdering innocent human life; it is the “termination” of a “fetus.”…and on it goes. Even in ancient times people wanted to hear softened down versions of prophecy. (Isa. 30:10-11). May the Lord help us to always see through the blinders and discard the lies!
These video series did an amazing job of discussing homosexuality from a biblical context. Definitely worth watching because it addresses a lot of the debates that I seen on this blog.
The Bible and Homosexual Practice : Seperating Fact from Fiction
http://coalitionofconscience.askdrbrown.org/resources/2007_lecture_monday.html
@gene, yup I think you’re right. It’s all around us isn’t it?
Thank you for telling me that I have these desires out of choice. I guess I chose it when I was 4-5 years old. I guess I knew exactly what I was thinking when I was that young.
I would argue that in the Garden of Eden the norm was heterosexual feelings, but the norm for me in a fallen world is homosexual feelings. There’s this thing called sin that entered the world and changed everything. What should have been the norm is not the norm. If heterosexual feelings were the norm, there wouldn’t be so many bi and gay people. On another side note, things with God that are right aren’t suppose to be normal. For example, loving your enemies. That’s not normal. Loving your neighbor as yourself. That’s not normal. Do unto others as you’d have them do unto you. That’s not normal.
As for free will in the sense you are talking about, what do you say to scripture that talks of God predestining people? I’ve been struggling with this for years. For 12 years I’ve prayed that God would just take it away, but guess what? He didn’t. Nope. God didn’t take away this desire in me. I’ve even spent nights on my knees crying throughout the night begging God to take it away out of fear of judgment from those around me, but you know what God has told me recently. While reading through Mark, God revealed to me that he wasn’t going to take the desire away. He didn’t let the cup pass from Jesus and he wasn’t going to let it pass from me. Why? For His Glory. contrary to popular belief in Christian circles, there is not one that that is for us. Christ death upon the cross was not for our benefit, it was for God’s glory and his glory alone. The fall of man, for God’s glory, so that he could show his power. My desire for other men, for God’s glory. I’m not saying that God caused it, but He most definitely didn’t stop it. Every day is a struggle for me, but I can rely on God and, thus, bring glory to his name. The cool thing is, he also showed me in Mark that even though he did not let the cup pass from Christ, there was still redemption. There will be redemption for me. In my timing, probably not. It will be in his timing. Until then, instead of praying for God to take it away, I need to pray for his will to be done and for all that he would have me do with these struggles to be done for his namesake.
Thank you Matt for you Post/Articles. I love reading them. It gives me so much insight on my Journey and how to talk to others who struggle with the lifestyle. God Delivered me from that lifestyle (gay) 3 yrs ago after living that way for 45 yrs. I talk to others who struggle with it, I have some great conversations, and many love hearing my thoughts and views on the subject. But I get much opposition from the gay community, well even from the hetrosexual community as well who encourage their gay friends that its alright to be that way. Reading your post and knowing your testimony helps me also in different ways hot to reach others who struggle as well or how to talk to them without making them feel condemned, hated, rejected, etc. Thank you, Many Many Blessings. Ahava & Shalom.
Good word! I know it has been through the pain & suffering I have experienced through my homosexual struggles that I have come to have authentic intimacy with GOD. The follow Jesus is costly, requires self denial & death to self, which includes my homosexual longings. Having this relationship with GOD & the results joy & peace & abundant life is worth the suffering & sacrifice! I’d have it no other way!
I like your words Richard, I can SO relate. The closer I get to God, the easier being single or alone as some say, it gets. I feel so much “fullness” with God in my life. I never feel alone at all. He is all around me. I can feel His presence everywhere. Yes to follow Christ you have to deny yourself. And I myself would have it no other way. I have never felt such peace in my life. Blessing to you. Ahava & Shalom.
Davide writes: ” I don’t believe God wills anyone to have same-sex desires or orientation. To me that is absurd”
If the world as it is — warts and all — is not going the way God would have it, then He’s not “controlling” it, right?
And here we come to the dilemmas of both Calvinism and Arminianism:
Is He sovereign and wicked, or is He good but ineffectual and unable or unwilling to stop even natural evil?
Perhaps this is why I’ve lapsed into agnosticism .. God, if He exists, is not knowable, despite everyone’s ridiculous theological formulas that put Him in a box. The world is filled with pain and suffering and God either doesn’t care or He wills that it be so.
James,
We as humans only ruin things but yet we blame God. God is light meaning that he never wanted evil on us. God’s ways are much higher than ours but we worship ourselves somehow thinking that we have attained enough intelligence to be god.
As believer in Christ, It is not blind faith that we have but reasonable faith that is based on sufficient proof recorded for us over a four thousand years showing humanity’s utter failure to save itself and God’s extreme love and mercy on all of us who do not deserve mercy.
God restrains the potential of evil in us by his Spirit even today but the time is coming and maybe soon that he has promised that he will pull back his Spirit so we can truly see the darkness of the unrestrained human heart and it will be the darkest history ever recorded. This is why now we are seeing humanity rejecting God’s standards about sexual identity and lifestyle following instead the desires of their hearts.
The question is not why he does not just stop evil but why does he even show mercy at all? If you were God, how much do you put with other people? What if you had total power, would you show mercy to a humanity that hates you because you were justice in your actions? God created life and we killed it with our sin and then he gave his own Son’s life to restore us back to life.
Christ radically came as God in a human body lived among us as a servant suffering a death to pay the price for our rebellion that has been the cause of every evil in this world. The cross should have been us but we continue to reject him because we keep believing the original lie given to Eve. The lie is that we know better than God.
Remember the two thieves on the cross? That is humanity. That is us. Some are mocking him and demanding a sign. Others are like Matt and me looking to Christ for salvation totally unable to earn it but knowing that Christ is faithful to save.
Barbara Lardinais gives a great illustration about this story.
“On the one side is faith; the other side is unbelief. On the one side is humility; on the other is arrogance. Profanity speaks out of one side and reverence speaks out of the other side. These two voices continue to speak from either side of the cross today. The world has always been divided, and always will be divided, with Christ at the center. Maybe God placed a man on each side of Jesus for this reason: one is the voice of the kingdom of this world and the other is the voice of the kingdom of God.
I will end with a question of my own for each reader. Which of these two speaks for you?”
Albert, I do not discount the reality of our potential for evil (or the reality of it, even).
The problem is that even coming to faith doesn’t seem to motivate Him to communicate much of anything.
Believers are left to ask:
“Why was our home destroyed by fire?”
“Why is our child suffering with cancer?”
“Why is our mother suffering from dementia?”
“Why did you allow someone to kidnap and murder a family member?”
Could He at least explain the necessity of any of this instead of leaving us to speculate until our deaths? Is He punishing us? Punishing our loved ones? What are we supposed to get out of this suffering?
And what’s the answer? Nada. Silence.
Even earthly parents tell their children why they’re disciplining them.
The answer is that we choose to remain in the physical Universe and be subject to its dangers. A better question is what did we do to deserve protection from such things?
There’s a difference between controlling and being in control.
James in Columbus,
Are you in Columbus, Ohio by chance? My old stomping grounds.
“Is He sovereign and wicked, or is He good but ineffectual and unable or unwilling to stop even natural evil?”
So well stated. Probably summarizes better than anything why I too have become agnostic. I read Albert’s response to your post and it makes me quite sad. This notion that we are nothing. That we are completely evil without God. That one man’s (Christ) death somehow is supposed to absolve God of all the death and destruction he has allow. I’m amazed at the ability to shut off your mind to all the realities around you…. and blindly accept such strange facts about the God you worship. I can only come to one conclusion…. it is cult behavior. The cult behavior is telling everyone how awful they are…. how they deserve nothing…. scare them to death regarding hell…. then tell them you have a simple solution: A prayer. Oh…. but this solution isn’t all that simple. You have to follow all the beliefs of the “cult” or you are out of favor with God. You have to deny you own embedded attractions and longings…. all to please this supposedly benevolent God. Yet, they can’t allow themselves to question their God at all. Somehow he is sovereign. He can cause all kinds of death and destruction…. but someone it was all our fault… we brought it on ourselves. Yet, we are required to live such a squeeky clean life. We expect more from ourselves than we do from our God. Sad…. and a cult.
Ohio, indeed! I’ve lived in big cities but I much prefer it here. People are friendly, jobs are plentiful, cost of living is low and there’s even a thriving arts culture!
In terms of Christianity being a “cult”, I’d agree that it can be true, especially in those churches where the pastors attempt to exert a high degree of control over their congregation. It is also filled with often bizarre and contradictory beliefs about how the universe operates.
However, I sympathize with those who cling tightly to religious beliefs, especially if life for them is hard or they’ve suffered great losses. Our minds must do what they can to buffer us against the harsh realities of this life. I have my own beliefs about God, but I also realize that it’s just a hope and a speculation. I don’t know for certain.
I moved to Houston 12 years ago. Love it here. We have a lesbian mayor! Columbus was great as well. I lived in the short north for my last few years there.
I know what I described was not exactly what we would define as a cult, but it is cultish in nature… whether or not the pastor is not a control freak. This is going to sound weird, but its like Jesus is the cult leader. This notion that we are nothing…. but He is everything. That somehow He can fix all our problems…. spiritually, emotionally , etc. Since I’ve been out of it for so long…. I read some of these posts and I think to myself… is this really any different than scientology or Mormonism? Those were things I considered a cult when I was younger.
James,
What defines a cult? Certainty about Christ is now cultist? Blind faith in a leader is cultic and a cult can also be atheistic as the case in North Korea or was in Russia with Stalin. The difference is that Christ demonstrated who he was and not to just a few witnesses but thousands. Our faith in him is not a blind brainless faith imposed on us by force but a rational faith based on facts. There were hundreds of prophecies written about him by the old testament prophets about him in great detail that is simply amazing. The bible itself even now is being fulfilled by world events and current trends but yet people mock it as was also predicated in the bible. It clearly stated that most would reject truth for pleasure or self-rule believing that the broad road was better. I constantly tell people to be critical thinkers and not just take someone’s word as is the case with many cults that I encountered. Most cults generally get their faith from a single leader proclaiming to be hearing from God unlike the bible which was is recorded over a 4000 year period with hundreds of events. and numerous writers. Christ himself pointed people back to the scriptures that were written about him as evidence. He fulfilled perfectly the prophecies as he constantly told his followers that he would die for their sins and rise again. He did and their movement was unstoppable even when many were being killed by Rome. The tragedies in Church history is not about God’s word failing us but men hiding God’s word from people twisting scripture to fulfilled their evil designs. The story is always the same. Man wants to create their own truth even in religious attire and the same is happening today.
The reality is that we are now in a world which is wanting to create it own morals outside of God resulting in a blind journey to destruction. The results are alarming.
A recent article in the DailyMail had a story about Dr Minerva and co-author Alberto Giubilini writing in the Journal of Medical Ethics, a University of Milan bio-ethicist arguing “that ‘after-birth abortion’ should be permissible in all cases in which abortion is”.
Also mentioned was Francesca Minerva, a philosopher and medical ethicist argued that “a young baby is not a real person and so killing it in the first days after birth is little different to aborting it in the womb.” She says doctors should have the right to kill newborn babies if they are disabled or just unwanted by their mothers.
How do they define a human? “They state that like an unborn child, a newborn has yet to develop hopes, goals and dreams and is therefore not someone with a moral right to life.” See how dark the human mind rationalize that taking a baby life is ok? What is next?
I am praying that you see that God’s love leads us to wholeness not meant to destroy you but to give you a hope and a certain future.
Albert,
What I find “cultish” about the teachings of fundamentalist Christianity is very nuanced…. The idea that man is lost…. He has no hope without Christ…. That we can’t trust ourselves (which I’ve heard on here about a hundred times). This kind of thinking puts the average Christian in such a vulnerable state. They end up taking direction only from the Bible or their minister. It creates a power vacuum that is wide open for all sorts of abuses. Abuses of both physical and spiritual. Abuse such as telling Matt and myself that our God given sexuality is nothing but a dirty sex act. We gay men and women are not loving relationships….. we are a sexual activity. So many of these fundamentalist types separate themselves from the rest of their own society. They create a “boogie man” in their mind as to who the rest of the world really is. I had a major wakeup call in graduate school at a large state school. I couldn’t believe these LOST, hell bound individuals were nice…. Really nice. They were interested in me as a human being…. Who I was…. Not what they wanted to project me to be. THAT was my first wake up call. How could these supposed heathens be more “Christ like” in their attitude toward me than my own church family and pastor? They weren’t interested in my spiritual state…. They were interested in me. (Love thy neighbor as thyself). It was such a breath of fresh air.
I’m tired of the argument that gays are twisting scripture to seek pleasure. It continues the notion that gay=dirty sex act. My gayness defines me in only one way….. the sex of the person I need to have a relationship with. Relationships are freakin hard. Why is it us twisting Scripture? As Matthew Vines has pointed out, the Bible never addresses a consensual same sex loving relationship. Every instance of homosexuality in the Bible represents excess lust, gang rape or “unnatural” acts committed by heterosexual men.
Ok. Sorry… I’m rambling now. I don’t think I’ve expressed myself very clearly. Bottom line…. This idea that we are nothing without Christ is a dangerous place to operate….. and it only seems to work on people when they are at their most vulnerable. It preys on the weak who need real help…. Not an invisible best friend who will save them from the pits of Hell.
we just can assume why it is God’ purpose…lets say some who got enough faith to believe this live and handle the struggle…but let us think about those, who once been in church, faithful ones…who just could not fight any more…just could not handle…and who are now gone(suicide)…or just have left faith? it is strange : you give me rules for your game, but not strength and ability to play…and God knows this and He still allows? some say: look at Jesus, He himself struggled…He had no sin but struggled for us, even died for us…ok..He was God..we are humans and hardly can handle this kind of struggle…
Sin leads to death..It took Christ’s death to pay for it and we are to be dead to it and alive unto righteousness.
“I am crucified with Christ,nevertheless,I live,yet not I, but Christ lives in me,and the life which I now live in the flesh,I Iive by the faith of the Son of God who loves me and gave Himself for me.” Gal.2:20
And “Whatsoever is not of faith is sin.”
“Let not sin reign in your mortal bodies to obey it in its lusts.”
“Let no man say when he is tempted,that he is tempted by God for God tempts no one. Everyone is tempted when he is drawn away of his own lusts and enticed.”
“This I pray that your whole body,soul and spirit be preserved blameless until the day of Christ.”
“This is the will of God that you abstain from sexual immorality.”** Of course, Christ defined looking with lust as committing adultery already in the heart.
I do not fully understand God’s ways in allowing sin, death, and hell to run their course on earth.I have thought that perhaps the only other just way He could have taken care of the problem would have been to destroy everything…as He almost did with the flood in Noah’s day.
We know someday, death and hell will be cast into the lake of fire. Even liars…do I struggle with lying still? Hardly ever..and when I do the spirit convicts me of it so quickly that I must confess it quickly. I never want to hurt Him like that again(grieve His Spirit within me)…He who bore that sin on the cross for me. Having unconfessed and unforsaken sin is the most miserable state of being for a true believer. A good reason to practice the Lord’s Table…and daily confession. 1John 1:9
I struggled much more with moral issues as a younger believer…Joni Tada did too as a young believer and asked God to do something drastic to change the situation. 3 months later she had her diving accident. 40 some years later,she sat as a quadriplegic in her wheelchair before us and said,”I am your warning.” Her ministries to the disabled continue.
Kay Arthur was struggling with immoral thoughts as a newer believer(having been a prostitute) ,went into a bathroom locked the door and asked God to kill her if she ever had those thoughts happen again. God answered her prayer and she was spared those thoughts from ever coming again.Reminds one of the woman caught in adultery..”Go and sin no more.”
“If thy right hand offend,cut it off and cast it from thee . It is better to enter into life maimed than to have your whole body cast into hell.”
The struggle may have to happen for some… and for some perhaps over a lifetime. We are not sinless,but we sin less than we did before.
I was just thinking…if God had never allowed sin to manifest, whether he interrupted it’s beginnings in Lucifer or never created the tree of the knowledge of good and evil in the first place, would any of His children ever have been able or willing to become fully dependent on Him as He desires? Hmm…
Perhaps it’s just that simple.
“All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God” “There is none righteous, no, not one” “For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal Life through Jesus Christ our Lord” “If a man says he does not sin, he decieves himself and the truth is not in him” “For God commendeth His LOVE toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us” “God is not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentence”
Albert writes: “This is why now we are seeing humanity rejecting God’s standards about sexual identity and lifestyle following instead the desires of their hearts. ”
First of all, no one falls in love with someone of the same gender because they’re “trying to tick God off”. It just happens.
My relationship with my boyfriend of almost 2 years has less to do with sex than you might imagine. I mean how much time do you think we spend actually having sex? I’d say less than 1% … and that’s a high estimate. The rest of our time is spent talking, supporting and otherwise loving each other. If that makes Him irritable because the other person has the wrong sets of genitals, then … wow …. He seems a bit petty in which case my being gay is going to be the least of my worries, I’d imagine.
I gave Him ample opportunity to make me capable and interested of being involved with women, including during college when I was a bit of a fundamentalist and had even tried self-cutting to make it “go away”. It never did.
So what do I do? Marry a woman that I have zero interest in just to (presumably) appease His never-ending anger? We’d both be miserable. Live like an eternal bachelor and serve only my own needs? How is that “better”?
I’m happy now .. not perfectly happy but reasonably so. My life is better and so is his. More importantly, we’re better people, whether you believe it or not. We’ve sacrificed for each other in ways we would not have if we were living as singles.
James,
The issue is about idolatry which is worshiping something or someone more than God. God had to deal with this in my life since I sought ultimate love in humans instead of God himself which for me was women for many years. Finally in my early thirties I found my greatest contentment alone in God and soon after that I met my wife. God wants us to have human relationship because he is a giver of good gifts whether it is friend or a spouse but it must be in their proper place or design not something that is used as an excuse to turn these gifts into idols convinced that our desires are more important than God himself.
Happiness is now considered the basis what defines right and love often confused with physical attraction is now a popular message spreading saying that this is how we know that we have God’s acceptance of our behavior. These subjective arguments are used by our common enemy satan to keep us in deception about God’s will for our lives.
Scripture is also being thrown out or reinterpreted to fit with our personal perceptions reinforced by our feelings and thoughts coming from a fallen mind.Paul told the Christians in 2 Corinthians 10:3 -5 that the real battle that we face was spiritual and we must take charge of our thinking and line it up with God’s truth.
“We are human, but we don’t wage war as humans do. We use God’s mighty weapons, not worldly weapons, to knock down the strongholds of human reasoning and to destroy false arguments. We destroy every proud obstacle that keeps people from knowing God. We capture their rebellious thoughts and teach them to obey Christ.”
The main weapon in this battle is the word of God as described in Hebrews 4:12 with the ability to make distinctions between the voice of the Spirit and our soulish thinking. “For the word of God is alive and powerful. It is sharper than the sharpest two-edged sword, cutting between soul and spirit, between joint and marrow. It exposes our innermost thoughts and desires.”
Our thoughts are tainted by the fall and they will lead us down a path to behaviors that are going to be most shocking. We are now seeing the same arguments being used for incest and polygamy. I would never imagined incest being condoned in our society but it is now being advocated as shown in the recent movie “Yellow” produced by Nick Cassavetes
In an interview with The Wrap, Cassavetes defended the incest plot, saying,
“I have no experience with incest. … We had heard a few stories where brothers and sisters were completely, absolutely in love with one another. You know what? This whole movie is about judgment, and lack of it, and doing what you want. Who gives a — if people judge you? I’m not saying this is an absolute but in a way, if you’re not having kids — who gives a —–? Love who you want. Isn’t that what we say? Gay marriage — love who you want? If it’s your brother or sister it’s super-weird, but if you look at it, you’re not hurting anybody except every single person who freaks out because you’re in love with one another.”
This is why God is right and we are wrong. How far will it go? No telling since we are now the final arbiters of right and wrong listening to the same lie that satan told Eve in Genesis 3:4-5
“You won’t die!” the serpent replied to the woman. “God knows that your eyes will be opened as soon as you eat it, and you will be like God, knowing both good and evil.”
The truth is that satan is the master thief wanting to rob you of real satisfaction and ultimately life itself which is found alone in Christ who has promised to give you life.
John 10:10 “The thief’s purpose is to steal and kill and destroy. My purpose is to give them a rich and satisfying life.”
Albert, I’m not suggesting that morality doesn’t exist or that we shouldn’t attempt to live up to some ethical standards. I also am not suggesting that personal happiness be the sole arbiter of what is right and wrong. I’ve denied myself on numerous occasions to do what I thought was ethical.
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Matthew 22:26-30
‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”
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So what does that mean? How do we live these seemingly simple commands? Even if I believed the Bible were the infallible word of God, I would have to think myself capable of interpreting it infallibly in this regard… which I do not. I have my own ideas, and apparently so do others. (As I’ve said on numerous occasions, there is no consensus amongst Christians worldwide regarding the morality of remarriage, contraception or even human slavery.)
Further, we live in an imperfect world where one must weigh varying goods and evils in trying to determine what is right or wrong. One can be honest, but one can be so honest that one becomes cruel. For example, our minds, of their own accord, come to different opinions about others that, if expressed, could devastate them. Even if asked, we candy-coat the truth … we lie a little bit, if only to spare another their feelings. Is that immoral? I personally don’t think so. Perhaps in an ideal world, our mind wouldn’t come to those opinions in the first place, but that’s not the world we live in.
So “love God and love others” to me means not cheating others, not stealing, abusing or deceiving them for one’s own gain. It means not getting ahead by trying to make others look incompetent. It means sometimes sacrificing one’s own comfort or safety for the good of others. It means not treating others as sexual objects for one’s own gratification and then discarding them. At least those are my values. That’s the best interpretation of the “whole of the Law” that I can come to. Where I’m wrong in my understanding, I can only wait and see, since clarity on all things is not given to us in this life.
James,
It is much clear than most think. It is the hardness of our human heart that makes it hard for us to see the obvious about what is right and wrong as Jesus told us the following about divorce in Matthew 19:7-8
“Why then,” they asked, “did Moses command that a man give his wife a certificate of divorce and send her away?” Jesus replied, “Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning.
We don’t know our own hearts but God does as he tell us in Jeremiah 17:9 “The human heart is the most deceitful of all things, and desperately wicked.
Who really knows how bad it is?
But I, the Lord, search all hearts and examine secret motives.
I give all people their due rewards, according to what their actions deserve.”
I have spent hours studying human behavior especially the horrendous crimes by ordinary people trying to understand the rational behind good people doing great evil. I just watched a documentary called “worse than war” where friends killed their neighbors in a genocide. One of the killers in Rwanda describes the experience that he was in a fog of darkness and there was a great darkness in him. He was clear to state it was not ignorance but a dark evil that dwells in all of us.
Can I really trust myself to be the final arbiter of right and wrong? These people are shocked at their own actions. We too are capable of great evil due to our fallen condition. This is why we need Christ’s redemptive work in us thru the new birth.
“Can I really trust myself to be the final arbiter of right and wrong?”
In a word…. yes. God created us with a mind and he expects us to use it. We are not robots expected to follow every “jot and tittle” from the Bible. Fundamentalism has basically turned faith into a “works” salvation.
Everything I have said and done is these last years is relativism, by intuition. From the fact that all ideologies are of equal value, that all ideologies are mere fictions, the modern relativist infers that everybody has the right to create for himself his own ideology, and to attempt to enforce it with all the energy of which he is capable. If relativism signifies contempt for fixed categories, and men who claim to be the bearers of an objective immortal truth, then there is nothing more relativistic than fascism. —Benito Mussolini
Albert, do you decide for yourself what the Bible means regarding any form of morality (whether it’s divorce, slavery, masturbation, the types of activities permitted on the Sabbath, the use of any alcohol, targeting civilians in warfare, etc) or do you look to someone else for a definitive interpretation?
If you decide for yourself on ANY topic, you are *also* a relativist in the sense that YOU have become the arbiter of what God’s Word means and what it does not mean.
Is there any alternative, really? There isn’t unless you’d wish to assert that God Himself is speaking to you with a clear and audible voice to clear up any ambiguity.
You keep missing this very important point: even if you believe God’s Word to be the sole authority in determining the morality of an action, you must still read and interpret that word in light of your OWN understanding and knowledge … or you can punt and defer to someone else, although that will still involve some personal bias since people frequently align themselves with pastors and theologians whose teachings most closely align with what they already believe.
Good points. Certain kinds of believers seem to believe that only complete, unthinking obedience and compliance with God’s commands [which are apparently crystal clear in "the" Scripture] represents an authentic non-relativistic I-know-not-what. Practice? way of life? self-understanding? Certainly not–a philosophy! God protect us no.
Leo Strauss, one of the great thinkers on the subject of reason-revelation wrote: “Once we realize that the principles of our actions have no other support than our blind choice, we really do not believe in them anymore… “ [from Natural Law and History]. Does that condemn rational choice per se? What makes choice blind? One more often hears of “blind obedience” than “blind choice.” One would think that actually reflecting upon principles of action would sooner represent the pursuit of enlighten judgment than a condition of unseeing obscurity. Perhaps “blind” is meant as provocation intended to incite reflection.
Strauss was, apparently, making the case for divine authority against the relativism of having options. Do believers seriously imagine they are ever NOT at liberty to assent or not assent to a given judgment in the New Testament? That it is possible circumvent the necessity of assenting, of choosing to believe and obey or not?
It sometimes seems like faith is a blanket prejudice in favor of the unquestionable authority of scripture rather than an openness to God’s deliverances; an attitude that attempts to exclude all questioning as somehow hubristic [e.g., reason as "whore"]. Such a sacrificium intellectus [sacrifice of intelligence] basically annuls our status as reason-able and morally autonomous individuals. Is that the price one pays for avoiding relativism? Or is it an illusion that one could ever be excused from the necessity of choosing?
By accepting [choosing] faith as the condition of our scripturally mediated salvation and after considering the alternatives, has the believer really avoided the necessity of assenting? Perhaps it would be more honest [if that's the word] just to obey out of fear and love like children. Is that the authenticity we should seek to avoid the specter of relativism? What ARE we longing for in embracing absolutes? The good/perfect parent who could righteously demand: ‘your’s is not to reason why–do as I say’? Are we still dreaming of an unquestionable authority to save us from the pit as reward for our obedience?
walk by faith not feeling